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  • Gooner
    replied
    Boris dealing with a remain cameraman




    The-force-is-strong-with-Boris.gif


    https://coub.com/view/1yp0tt
    Last edited by Gooner; 05 Aug 19, 05:13.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    I suspect there may be a more practical reason for not meeting right now :

    However, unlike the prime minister, Frost has been seeking to meet MEPs, requesting meetings this week with the European parliamentís pointman on Brexit, Guy Verhofstadt. The Belgian MEP and senior parliament officials were not available to see Frost because they were not in Brussels.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...scrap-backstop

    Political system is dead during summer, circus will reopen in september

    Leave a comment:


  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    BoJo is now playing a childish, populist game of brinkmanship and is refusing to meet with any EU leaders until they state that the Backstop is dead, whatever that actually means.
    Do remember that the Backstop was a UK idea which they insisted be put into the Withdrawal Agreement. It is a UK backstop, not a Northern Ireland Backstop but the majority of the people in Northern Ireland strongly support it.

    Leave a comment:


  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    But it was May's government that ordered the Royal Marines to sieze that Iranian tanker in Gibraltar at the Trump administration's behest, not Boris Johnson's . . . .



    How loyal? Are they not to speak of how ridiculously naked his new clothes make him look?
    they intend to compensate by posing Boris next to his rather comely 31 year old girl fr
    iend.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    Good question, presumably it's not the resigning PM who orders a thing like this, not alone at least.

    What is known about the decision making process on the UK side ?

    Presumably May had support for this decision amongst some of her cabinet (incl. the Foreign Secretary Hunt?) - all of whom are now gone.

    The decision to seize the Iranian tanker seems to be an internal Tory affair to try and leave Boris another mess to clear up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Surrey View Post
    The Iranian tanker was seized because it was breaking EU sanctions on Syria and was in British territorial waters.
    Apparently the EU sanctions only apply only to EU nations, not to third countries like Iran.

    That's one of the reasons I quoted the Guardian article there, don't know if anyone can confirm or deny ?

    I think it's strange that a resigning UK government, in the "middle" of a Brexit process would go to such lenghts to implement a "EU policy" -

    it's a long way from Gibraltar to Syria, and there a quite a few EU navies in between that could have stopped that tanker if needed.

    One other good question raised is, why would Iran move anything to Syria, by Gibraltar in the first place, the logical route would be Suez no ?

    the article suggests the tanker was to large to traverse the canal, which is - again - strange.

    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    But it was May's government that ordered the Royal Marines to sieze that Iranian tanker in Gibraltar at the Trump administration's behest, not Boris Johnson's . . . .
    Good question, presumably it's not the resigning PM who orders a thing like this, not alone at least.

    What is known about the decision making process on the UK side ?
    Last edited by Snowygerry; 29 Jul 19, 04:56.

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  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    Cornwall, Jersey, Guernsey, Man, Wight -- you can't blame a fellow if the status of some of those "principalities" gets a tad confusing. A few years back I had to wire money to a client in Jersey, and for the love of God I didn't know if their bank in the Channel Islands was considered to be in the "United Kingdom," or some other jurisdiction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Channel Islands' parliament refer to Queen Elizabeth as "notre duc"? Not duchess, and not in English.
    I really don't uddderstand high finance, but I have trouble keeping bells and halters on my bunch, much less cages of greenbacks...

    Leave a comment:


  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    Yeah, but your nation -- politicians and voters alike, from virtually all points on the political spectrum -- has pretty much divested herself of a functioning navy, so with what assets will your Royal Navy escort British-flagged tankers now?
    Canada can sell them back their submarines..
    Seriously, we should forge closer support ties through the commonwealth.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metryll
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post

    Correction the US does not do it either as the executive is not directly elected. The President is appointed by an electoral college and then appoints the government executives who are then approved by Congress so this is a sort of hybrid parliamentary system or perhaps a form of elected monarchy (which is what some of the FF intended).
    See your point but I was not making reference to the election process but to text explicitely linking sovereingty to the people.

    USA :
    • "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Sorry, I cited DOI when it is actually the preamble to the Constitution.

    France :
    • "Article 3. National sovereignty belongs to the people, who exercise it through their representatives and by way of referendum. No section of the people and no individual may claim to exercise it. The suffrage may be direct or indirect in conditions provided for by the Constitution. It is in all cases universal, equal and secret. The right to vote, in conditions laid down by law, is enjoyed by all French nationals of either sex who are of age and in full possession of their civil and political rights."

    Leave a comment:


  • Surrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Metryll View Post

    Aside of Mark reply, some more information about how really work British democracy.

    #1 People is not sovereign, only Parliement is. Such a kind of regime is called a Parliamentary democracy. Only two western democracies lies power directly to the people : USA (DOI) and France (Art 3).

    #2 Only a binding referendum can force Parliament to enact 2016 referendum result. High Court has already stated in Nov 2016 that Parliament had to vote whatever result of vote.
    The people elect Parliament, this ultimate power rests with the people.
    We are a democracy thus the government will seek to enact the referendum. Thatís what democracies do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Surrey
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post

    The government is not elected by the people. Members of Parliament are elected by the people and a government is formed from some of those members. If Parliament expresses a lack of confidence in the government it does not automatically mean an election as if another government can be formed for which enough (a majority) of members will vote there will be no election. Under the Fixed Term Act it is no longer in the gift of a Prime Minister to call an election they have to get parliament to vote for one or to vote no confidence twice.
    In practical terms there would never be a situation where if the PM chose to call an election there would not be one. The opposition will always support a call for an election as not to do so would show fear.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by Metryll View Post

    Aside of Mark reply, some more information about how really work British democracy.

    #1 People is not sovereign, only Parliement is. Such a kind of regime is called a Parliamentary democracy. Only two western democracies lies power directly to the people : USA (DOI) and France (Art 3).

    .
    Correction the US does not do it either as the executive is not directly elected. The President is appointed by an electoral college and then appoints the government executives who are then approved by Congress so this is a sort of hybrid parliamentary system or perhaps a form of elected monarchy (which is what some of the FF intended).

    Leave a comment:


  • Metryll
    replied
    Originally posted by Surrey View Post

    Britain is a democracy. Thus ultimate power lies with the people.
    The government is elected by the people. Parliament can check the government but government can then go back to the people to elect a new Parliament.
    The people want to leave the EU as has demonstrated by the referendum result. Thus it must be enacted.
    Aside of Mark reply, some more information about how really work British democracy.

    #1 People is not sovereign, only Parliement is. Such a kind of regime is called a Parliamentary democracy. Only two western democracies lies power directly to the people : USA (DOI) and France (Art 3).

    #2 Only a binding referendum can force Parliament to enact 2016 referendum result. High Court has already stated in Nov 2016 that Parliament had to vote whatever result of vote.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by Surrey View Post

    Britain is a democracy. Thus ultimate power lies with the people.
    The government is elected by the people. Parliament can check the government but government can then go back to the people to elect a new Parliament.
    The people want to leave the EU as has demonstrated by the referendum result. Thus it must be enacted.
    The government is not elected by the people. Members of Parliament are elected by the people and a government is formed from some of those members. If Parliament expresses a lack of confidence in the government it does not automatically mean an election as if another government can be formed for which enough (a majority) of members will vote there will be no election. Under the Fixed Term Act it is no longer in the gift of a Prime Minister to call an election they have to get parliament to vote for one or to vote no confidence twice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Surrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Metryll View Post

    In this case change the law because it is not how legal system work in UK. Trampling the law, in this case ignoring the nature of referedum as advisory, that is a clear procedure in which Parliament withold the last word is not democracy. Only the first step to dictature...
    Britain is a democracy. Thus ultimate power lies with the people.
    The government is elected by the people. Parliament can check the government but government can then go back to the people to elect a new Parliament.
    The people want to leave the EU as has demonstrated by the referendum result. Thus it must be enacted.

    Leave a comment:

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