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  • #76
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post

    The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...n_Human_Rights
    Yes, but after Brexit the ECJ (European Court of Justice) will have no power over the UK with UK courts only looking to the ECJ for precedent in the context of case law. That leaves the Unionists, or anyone else, free to act unfettered by the ECHR in that the ECJ is the body that decides whither the ECHR is being followed or now.
    Under the Withdrawal AGreement the ECJ would have continued to have a role within the UK for a period of 8 years after Brexit but that's in the bin now so no ECJ. No ECJ, no European Court of Human Rights, no ECHR.
    Last edited by E.D. Morel; 07 Jun 19, 04:58.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

      the ECJ is the body that decides whither the ECHR is being followed or now.
      No, that would be the European Court of Human Rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...f_Human_Rights

      "Not to be confused with the European Court of Justice, the highest court of the European Union."

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Gooner View Post

        No, that would be the European Court of Human Rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...f_Human_Rights

        "Not to be confused with the European Court of Justice, the highest court of the European Union."
        The UK is already backing out of the ECHR, as incorporated into the UK's 1998 Human Rights Act.
        The wording of the political declaration the UK agreed with the EU stated that the UK would not be bound by the Convention but rather that it would "Respect the Framework" of the Convention. Without EU membership there is nothing stopping the UK from walking away from the Convention and so the ECtHR would have nothing to adjudicate.
        The ECJ carried the biggest Judicial stick in the EU and, unlike the ECtHR, has real powers of sanction. That's why the ECJ is important in this context.
        Edit: Link
        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Gooner View Post

          The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...n_Human_Rights
          But not the reverse :

          "Paragraph 3 is intended to ensure the necessary consistency between the Charter and the ECHR by establishing the rule that, in so far as the rights in the present Charter also correspond to rights guaranteed by the ECHR, the meaning and scope of those rights, including authorised limitations, are the same as those laid down by the ECHR. This means in particular that the legislator, in laying down limitations to those rights, must comply with the same standards as are fixed by the detailed limitation arrangements laid down in the ECHR, which are thus made applicable for the rights covered by this paragraph, without thereby adversely affecting the autonomy of Union law and of that of the Court of Justice of the European Union."

          https://fra.europa.eu/en/charterpedi...info-case-laws

          Hence any violation of ECHR standard by a Member State do create a case for ECJ ruling.

          Comment


          • #80
            https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...itics-48554853

            Private prosecution brought against Boris by EU supporters has been thrown out.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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            • #81
              Another leadership contender comes out and says they will suspend Parliament so they can force through their loony version of Brexit. That means a Prime Minister who was not elected to the job will disenfranchise 600+ elected MPs so they can get their own way. So much for Brexit being about the supremacy of Parliament!

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by m kenny View Post
                Another leadership contender comes out and says they will suspend Parliament so they can force through their loony version of Brexit. That means a Prime Minister who was not elected to the job will disenfranchise 600+ elected MPs so they can get their own way. So much for Brexit being about the supremacy of Parliament!
                There is a precedent - when we had a military dictatorship under Cromwell. It's not take back control any more - just take control
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                  Wrong : it is dishonest to call the Farage vote The Right .The Farage vote is the vote for Brexit : the Farage vote are Conservative, LD,Labour,Green and Scottish/Welsh and Irish Nationalist votes .
                  2014
                  UKIP :26,4 % 24 seats
                  Labour :24,4 % 20 seats
                  Conservative :23,1 % 19 seats
                  2019
                  Brexit :30,5 % 29 seats
                  UKIP : 3,2 %
                  Labour : 13,6 % 10 seats
                  Conservative : 8,8% 4 seats
                  It is also dishonest to call the Leavers The Right : Labour is also a Leaver, but no one will call Corbyn a Rightist .
                  FYI : Labour lost also : 1,7 million votes .
                  The UKIP/Brexit party was the only winner : + 1,4 million votes .
                  Which makes me wonder, why is everyone dancing around the Results and going off into the woods with all this other stuff?

                  Is that what the TV is telling them to do?
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by m kenny View Post
                    Another leadership contender comes out and says they will suspend Parliament so they can force through their loony version of Brexit. That means a Prime Minister who was not elected to the job will disenfranchise 600+ elected MPs so they can get their own way. So much for Brexit being about the supremacy of Parliament!
                    Balfour was not elected to the job when he became PM in 1902.
                    Neither was Campbell-Bannerman in 1905
                    Neither was Asquith in 1908,and 1910,Lloyd George in 1916, Baldwin in 1923,McDonald in 1931, Chamberlain in 1937, Winston in 1940,Eden in 1955, McMillan in 1957, Douglas-Home in 1963, Callaghan in 1976, Major in 1990,Gordon Brown in 2007, Cameron in 2010,May in 2017 .
                    There is no law,or unwritten custom that one can only become PM if one gains an absolute majority in a national election .

                    And parliament can only be disenfranchised if parliament agrees .

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                      And parliament can only be disenfranchised if parliament agrees .
                      That is incorrect. The UK Parliament is Prorogued by the Monarch, upon the request of the Prime Minister, with the advice of the Privy Council. Parliament has no say in the matter.
                      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                        That is incorrect. The UK Parliament is Prorogued by the Monarch, upon the request of the Prime Minister, with the advice of the Privy Council. Parliament has no say in the matter.
                        No : Brexit can not happen without the agreement of Parliament .As Parliament can not be prorogued indefinitely,it is obvious that at the next session,Parliament would annul Brexit and dismiss government .

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                          No : Brexit can not happen without the agreement of Parliament .As Parliament can not be prorogued indefinitely,it is obvious that at the next session,Parliament would annul Brexit and dismiss government .
                          Prorogation can happen without the consent of Parliament. Brexit will happen on the 31st of October unless parliament stop it from happening. If Parliament is not in session due to it having been Prorogued then it cannot stop Brexit.
                          The current session will end before the end of July. The next session will start at the beginning of September. If that session starting in September is Prorogued then a no deal Brexit will happen as that is the default position.
                          I doubt that Queen Elizabeth will allow herself to be pulled into such a deeply divisive and Constitutionally contentious situation.
                          "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                          validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                          "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                            Prorogation can happen without the consent of Parliament. Brexit will happen on the 31st of October unless parliament stop it from happening. If Parliament is not in session due to it having been Prorogued then it cannot stop Brexit.
                            The current session will end before the end of July. The next session will start at the beginning of September. If that session starting in September is Prorogued then a no deal Brexit will happen as that is the default position.
                            I doubt that Queen Elizabeth will allow herself to be pulled into such a deeply divisive and Constitutionally contentious situation.
                            She might well develop a very convenient diplomatic illness that prevents her from taking action
                            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                              Prorogation can happen without the consent of Parliament. Brexit will happen on the 31st of October unless parliament stop it from happening. If Parliament is not in session due to it having been Prorogued then it cannot stop Brexit.
                              The current session will end before the end of July. The next session will start at the beginning of September. If that session starting in September is Prorogued then a no deal Brexit will happen as that is the default position.
                              I doubt that Queen Elizabeth will allow herself to be pulled into such a deeply divisive and Constitutionally contentious situation.
                              After October 31, Parliament can always annul Brexit

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                If Parliament is prorogued, the reason is that government wants to eliminate Parliament to make Brexit possible . But,after October 31 there will still be a parliament that is hostile to Brexit .And it will take its revenge, by making a law that annuls Brexit .
                                The problem is that a Brexit on October 31 is very improbable .
                                If Parliament is not prorogued, it can/will make a law with as content unconditional surrender to Brussels .
                                If Parliament is prorogued, after the prorogation, it still can/will make the same law and force the government to capitulate to Brussels .
                                The opponents to Brexit will not disappear /give up on October 31,they will still be in the position to sabotage the whole process.
                                The only solution is new elections hoping that these will give a pro Brexit parliament, but ,given the power of the British Deep State, the chances are very small .

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