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Bloody Sunday soldier to face murder charges

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  • Originally posted by Freebird View Post

    Justice for all, as they say.

    I wonder if Gerry Adams will also be held to account?
    Whataboutism............great argument.

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    • Originally posted by Freebird View Post

      I wonder if Gerry Adams will also be held to account?
      I don't think he was in the Para's
      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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      • Originally posted by Hop View Post

        Protestant Northern Ireland was very similar to the southern states in the US. They used local control to disenfranchise the catholics as some US states disenfranchised black people. The difference is that the black people in the US wanted equality and got it when the federal government imposed it on the states. The IRA didn't want equality, they wanted a war to unite Ireland, and they got that war at the same time equality was achieved after the UK government imposed it on Northern Ireland.

        The IRA didn't want civil rights, they wanted a war.
        Ok- in 1962, the IRA had approx. 200 members in all of Ireland after the abject failure of their border campaign, which received little catholic support in Ulster.

        The IRA, the Provo's, ETC., MUSHROOMED after the Catholic civil rights marches and movements were bloodily suppressed.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border...epublican_Army)
        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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        • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

          I don't think he was in the Para's
          Let me be clear
          If the Paras or British Army violated the law by killing unarmed civilians then they need to be held to account.
          Same goes for the IRA members who killed civilians.
          If Adams had a role in the murder of McColville (mother of 10 children) he should also be held to account.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Freebird View Post



            Let me be clear
            If the Paras or British Army violated the law by killing unarmed civilians then they need to be held to account.
            Same goes for the IRA members who killed civilians.
            If Adams had a role in the murder of McColville (mother of 10 children) he should also be held to account.
            I agree. Murder is murder.
            The way in which Catholics were treated in a deeply sectarian Northern Ireland by a proactively bigoted and sectarian local government which was supported by a combination of action and indifference by the UK government was disgraceful.
            Blowing up children and generally murdering people wasn't the solution. The Jean McConville case was particularly barbaric. She was killed because she went to the aid of a dying British soldier. The IRA later made up some BS that she was an informer.

            And don't forget the Loyalist terrorist groups, some of whom were actively supported by the British security forces (arms, intelligence, actually participation by Army and police members in terrorist attacks). It was hard to know where the forces of the State stopped and the terrorists started.
            Last edited by E.D. Morel; 28 Mar 19, 11:00.
            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

            Comment


            • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

              Are you talking about the victim who had nail bombs placed on him after he was shot (as concluded by Saville)?
              Can I suggest you actually read the Saville report? The conclusions on the nail bombs found:

              In the end, we have concluded that the diffjculties with the possibility that the nail bombs
              were planted at the Bridge Camp outweigh the diffjculties with the possibility that they
              were in Gerald Donaghey’s pockets when he was shot. Since to our minds these are on
              the evidence the only two viable possibilities, it follows on this basis that in our view
              Gerald Donaghey was probably in possession of the nail bombs when he was shot.


              The inquiry has an intensive analysis of the finding of nail bombs on Donaghey. No one searched Donaghey from the time he was shot until the bombs were found when he was examined at Bridge Camp base. He was at that time lying dead across the back seat of a car, and one nail bomb was spotted sticking out of his trouser pocket. The army bomb disposal man who examined him found another bomb in his other trouser pocket, and one in each of his jacket side pockets. None of the other bombs was "sticking out" and they were only discovered when the pockets were checked. The one bomb "sticking out" of the trouser pocket could easily have been pushed to the top of the pocket as the body moved on the back seat.

              As Saville points out, the only way the bombs could have been planted is if someone took them to the camp ahead of time, which means they'd have had to prepare ahead of time, and as it was a pure fluke Dongahey's body turned up at the camp, that seems far fetched. It would also require someone to place 4 bombs on the body, while it was in the back of the car, and with limited access (the bomb disposal man had to cut one of the pockets to get the bomb out).

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              • Originally posted by m kenny View Post

                I sent him that link.
                I've been using Cain as a source since I was arguing with Pogue Mahone on the OnWar forum 20 years ago.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                  Ok- in 1962, the IRA had approx. 200 members in all of Ireland after the abject failure of their border campaign, which received little catholic support in Ulster.

                  The IRA, the Provo's, ETC., MUSHROOMED after the Catholic civil rights marches and movements were bloodily suppressed.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border...epublican_Army)
                  Yes. They saw it as an opportunity to start a war to unify Ireland. The big upsurge in killing started after the civil rights issues had already been addressed, either by the UK government directly, or by pressure they brought to bear on the NI government.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hop View Post

                    Can I suggest you actually read the Saville report? The conclusions on the nail bombs found:

                    In the end, we have concluded that the diffjculties with the possibility that the nail bombs
                    were planted at the Bridge Camp outweigh the diffjculties with the possibility that they
                    were in Gerald Donaghey’s pockets when he was shot. Since to our minds these are on
                    the evidence the only two viable possibilities, it follows on this basis that in our view
                    Gerald Donaghey was probably in possession of the nail bombs when he was shot.


                    The inquiry has an intensive analysis of the finding of nail bombs on Donaghey. No one searched Donaghey from the time he was shot until the bombs were found when he was examined at Bridge Camp base. He was at that time lying dead across the back seat of a car, and one nail bomb was spotted sticking out of his trouser pocket. The army bomb disposal man who examined him found another bomb in his other trouser pocket, and one in each of his jacket side pockets. None of the other bombs was "sticking out" and they were only discovered when the pockets were checked. The one bomb "sticking out" of the trouser pocket could easily have been pushed to the top of the pocket as the body moved on the back seat.

                    As Saville points out, the only way the bombs could have been planted is if someone took them to the camp ahead of time, which means they'd have had to prepare ahead of time, and as it was a pure fluke Dongahey's body turned up at the camp, that seems far fetched. It would also require someone to place 4 bombs on the body, while it was in the back of the car, and with limited access (the bomb disposal man had to cut one of the pockets to get the bomb out).
                    Fair enough, I stand corrected.
                    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hop View Post

                      Yes. They saw it as an opportunity to start a war to unify Ireland. The big upsurge in killing started after the civil rights issues had already been addressed, either by the UK government directly, or by pressure they brought to bear on the NI government.
                      What is your opinion on Unionist terrorists and, in particular, collusion between the Army and RUC and those loyalist terrorists?
                      Do you really think that the UK government was action as an "honest broker" in Northern Ireland in the 1970's?
                      I think they were from the 80's onwards but in the 70's?
                      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                      Comment


                      • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster...ion_of_the_UDR

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                        • 1724552_1197655270262491_6186416887246865966_n.jpg
                          The long toll of the brave
                          Is not lost in darkness
                          Over the fruitful earth
                          And athwart the seas
                          Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                          Unquenchable forever.

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                          • They've only gone and done it again the Paras are being investigated for shooting Corbin!!!
                            Will the murder charge be made this week or in 2065?
                            The long toll of the brave
                            Is not lost in darkness
                            Over the fruitful earth
                            And athwart the seas
                            Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                            Unquenchable forever.

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                            • The tankies made do with a picture of Diane Abbot

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