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  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post

    And that's why you all watch the Kardashians

    The fact is that for a lot of people the USA is just more interesting than their own countries and neighbours.
    That's sad, really friggin' sad . . . .

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

    Perhaps, but he certainly has a style all is own.
    We're using the word "style" rather broadly, aren't we.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post
    USA is a superpower with global presence in more than one way. What happens there affects us, what happens here has no effect on you.
    And that's why you all watch the Kardashians

    The fact is that for a lot of people the USA is just more interesting than their own countries and neighbours.

    Leave a comment:


  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    Are you sure about that? Take Greece, for example: they blame Citigroup for their recent fiscal collapse -- while carefully omitting mention of their own, self-grown, fiscal irresponsibility.


    Mexican officials blame US parties for the preponderance of illegal firearms in their country, claiming that 90% of weapons seized are from US sources. The truth, however, is a little less melodramatic:
    Am not Mexican or Greek though; purely speaking from Finnish viewpoint in this case. Worth noting that what the politicians say and who they blame, and why the people watch news are not the same.

    Plenty of Europeans here go on about how the US deliberately discouraged Western Europe's desire to fund her own defense -- yet Macron's recent proposal to inaugurate an EU military force, and the silent response to it -- should render such claims laughable. Need I go on, or are you getting the point yet? With the big bad US in town, anything and everything imaginable can be blamed on those dirty Yanquis. Surely you can admit that, from a political point of view, there's nothing more convenient than having a scapegoat readily at hand.
    Of course, I never claimed politicians and people don't like scapegoats. But that doesn't mean everyone goes around blaming the US elections about everything just because we are interested in the outcome. The only thing I have seen here about European defence spending is from US members blathering how we use US money to fund our social security programs and how we are all communists.

    And since Trump's trade wars are going to cost the US far more than anyone else. should you all be kissing The Donald's hairy beanbag for giving you such an unprecedented competitive advantage, as well as so willingly playing the perfect scapegoat?
    No, because it's a loss for everyone.

    Think of it this way: there was nothing that hard-core loser Germans loved more than Herr Schicklegruber pointing a bony finger of blame at Germany's Jews: it absolved them from any responsibility for their loserness. Old white Americans love Donald Trump for fingering dirty criminal rapist Mexicans: absolved the Archie Bunker crowd from responsibility for siring too few kids to keep Social Security solvent. Likewise, it's a godsend to 'most everyone else that the US is the world's last remaining superpower: now their mantra can be "it's not our fault -- it's America's!"
    There are plenty of things that USA gets blamed for, but that doesn't mean it's all we do. In Finland the subject pretty much only comes up with the Climate Change issues.

    Leave a comment:


  • BELGRAVE
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    I wouldn't call Pres Trump entertaining. I'd say that he's more compelling than entertaining, like a car crash.
    Perhaps, but he certainly has a style all is own.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

    There's that, plus the fact that ,like him or not, Mr Trump has great entertainment value.
    I wouldn't call Pres Trump entertaining. I'd say that he's more compelling than entertaining, like a car crash.

    Leave a comment:


  • BELGRAVE
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post

    I think you have been listening to too many conservatives here. People are not walking around going "hey, this trash hasn't been emptied, DAMN USA!" or "damn immigrant caravans from USA invading our country!". It's more like "oh that idiot decided to continue his trade war, guess that's gonna have an impact on world wide economy".
    There's that, plus the fact that ,like him or not, Mr Trump has great entertainment value.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post
    I think you have been listening to too many conservatives here. People are not walking around going "hey, this trash hasn't been emptied, DAMN USA!" or "damn immigrant caravans from USA invading our country!". It's more like "oh that idiot decided to continue his trade war, guess that's gonna have an impact on world wide economy".
    Are you sure about that? Take Greece, for example: they blame Citigroup for their recent fiscal collapse -- while carefully omitting mention of their own, self-grown, fiscal irresponsibility.

    Mexican officials blame US parties for the preponderance of illegal firearms in their country, claiming that 90% of weapons seized are from US sources. The truth, however, is a little less melodramatic:

    The truth is that less than 12 percent of the guns Mexico seized in 2008 have been verified as coming from the United States. The proof can be found in the U.S. government statistics that the STRATFOR report explains below

    https://www.nssf.org/report-shatters...os-gun-supply/
    Plenty of Europeans here go on about how the US deliberately discouraged Western Europe's desire to fund her own defense -- yet Macron's recent proposal to inaugurate an EU military force, and the silent response to it -- should render such claims laughable. Need I go on, or are you getting the point yet? With the big bad US in town, anything and everything imaginable can be blamed on those dirty Yanquis. Surely you can admit that, from a political point of view, there's nothing more convenient than having a scapegoat readily at hand.

    And since Trump's trade wars are going to cost the US far more than anyone else. should you all be kissing The Donald's hairy beanbag for giving you such an unprecedented competitive advantage, as well as so willingly playing the perfect scapegoat?

    Think of it this way: there was nothing that hard-core loser Germans loved more than Herr Schicklegruber pointing a bony finger of blame at Germany's Jews: it absolved them from any responsibility for their loserness. Old white Americans love Donald Trump for fingering dirty criminal rapist Mexicans: absolved the Archie Bunker crowd from responsibility for siring too few kids to keep Social Security solvent. Likewise, it's a godsend to 'most everyone else that the US is the world's last remaining superpower: now their mantra can be "it's not our fault -- it's America's!"

    Leave a comment:


  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    Is it not possible -- I'm arguing probable -- that non-Americans overstate US influence in their countries, mostly as a means to absolve themselves from responsibility for their own countries' condition? Just because a glorified wh*re like Madonna became a hugely successful and famous celebrity in the US, does that de facto mean that any other country's society has to follow suit? Just because we were dumb enough to elect a carnival barker like Donald Trump to the highest office in our land, does that mean that his inane rantings exert real influence on any other country's condition? Sometimes, yes, but lots of times no.
    I think you have been listening to too many conservatives here. People are not walking around going "hey, this trash hasn't been emptied, DAMN USA!" or "damn immigrant caravans from USA invading our country!". It's more like "oh that idiot decided to continue his trade war, guess that's gonna have an impact on world wide economy".

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post
    I don't think it's a multiple choice question. Rather, the trouble comes from within, from borders, and from far away. You are the far away part. I wouldn't necessarily call it problems/trouble though. And it's more of a butterfly effect than direct influence. Finland is part of the world and USA has a massive effect on the issues of the world. So of course, if something that you do might have an effect on us we follow it in the news.
    Is it not possible -- I'm arguing probable -- that non-Americans overstate US influence in their countries, mostly as a means to absolve themselves from responsibility for their own countries' condition? Just because a glorified wh*re like Madonna became a hugely successful and famous celebrity in the US, does that de facto mean that any other country's society has to follow suit? Just because we were dumb enough to elect a carnival barker like Donald Trump to the highest office in our land, does that mean that his inane rantings exert real influence on any other country's condition? Sometimes, yes, but lots of times no.

    An Egyptian journalist many years ago, whose name currently eludes me, once quipped that if Israel did not exist that Arab political leaders would have to invent her. Likewise, it's all too easy to attribute this or that issue to outsized US influence when things in such-and-such country are f*cked up for reasons all their own, owing nothing to US influence. I rather suspect that that's what's behind the BBC's obsessive coverage of this year's US midterm elections. It's just a little overdone. "The lady doth protest too much methinks."

    Leave a comment:


  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    I hear what you're saying, and I agree -- to a degree. Yes, as the world's largest market, US can impose an outsized influence on some issues -- but not all. You mention LBGT rights. If US emulates the Third Reich and mandates that LBGTs affix purple triangles to their jackets, how does that effect any outside the US? Is Finland* compelled to follow suit?

    I submit that the US' influence is actually overstated, at least by some, for a very simple reason: it absolves them of responsibility. "Our country country sucks because of US influence -- therefore all I have to do is bitch about the US and that will substitute for doing anything substantive about the condition of my country." That's been a plank of Iranian policy for near four decades now.

    So from where does trouble in a place like Finland most likely and most often emanate: far from Finland's borders, near to Finland's borders, or from within Finland's borders?

    *Feel free to substitute the country of your choice in place of Finland.
    I don't think it's a multiple choice question. Rather, the trouble comes from within, from borders, and from far away. You are the far away part. I wouldn't necessarily call it problems/trouble though. And it's more of a butterfly effect than direct influence. Finland is part of the world and USA has a massive effect on the issues of the world. So of course, if something that you do might have an effect on us we follow it in the news.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post

    It's not about invasions, even if that is the hot topic in USA. World economy, legislation(war on drugs is a perfect example, LGBT rights a second one), politics, etc. For example if USA decides to put sanctions on Iran it's gonna have an affect on Finland. If Finland places sanctions on Iran USA doesn't even know it doesn't notice.
    I hear what you're saying, and I agree -- to a degree. Yes, as the world's largest market, US can impose an outsized influence on some issues -- but not all. You mention LBGT rights. If US emulates the Third Reich and mandates that LBGTs affix purple triangles to their jackets, how does that effect any outside the US? Is Finland* compelled to follow suit?

    I submit that the US' influence is actually overstated, at least by some, for a very simple reason: it absolves them of responsibility. "Our country country sucks because of US influence -- therefore all I have to do is bitch about the US and that will substitute for doing anything substantive about the condition of my country." That's been a plank of Iranian policy for near four decades now.

    So from where does trouble in a place like Finland most likely and most often emanate: far from Finland's borders, near to Finland's borders, or from within Finland's borders?

    *Feel free to substitute the country of your choice in place of Finland.

    Leave a comment:


  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    USA's invading Finland? Again, my map reading may be deficient, but if Europe stands to take a pasting, isn't it more likely to come from Russia than from the US? I mean, wasn't that Finland's experience?
    It's not about invasions, even if that is the hot topic in USA. World economy, legislation(war on drugs is a perfect example, LGBT rights a second one), politics, etc. For example if USA decides to put sanctions on Iran it's gonna have an affect on Finland. If Finland places sanctions on Iran USA doesn't even know it doesn't notice.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post
    USA is a superpower with global presence in more than one way. What happens there affects us, what happens here has no effect on you.
    USA's invading Finland? Again, my map reading may be deficient, but if Europe stands to take a pasting, isn't it more likely to come from Russia than from the US? I mean, wasn't that Finland's experience?

    Originally posted by Surrey View Post
    You speak the same language so are seen as not being as alien as those across the Channel.
    You jimmies play cricket: can't get more alien than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Surrey
    replied
    You were listening to the World service which by definition is going to give much greater prominence to overseas news.
    That said US news is nearly always given much greater coverage than Euro news, even on Radio 4 or 5. You speak the same language so are seen as not being as alien as those across the Channel.

    Leave a comment:

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