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Can a nation be kicked from NATO?

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  • Can a nation be kicked from NATO?

    just a scenario I had in my head.
    if england demanded that Russia handed over the men accused of poisoning that guy and his daughter in the U.K. if Russia refused and the U.K. invoked article 5 and decided they were going to take military action to retrieve the assasins and a smaller NATO nation bordering Russia refused to be a part of military action against Russia can NATO members vote to kick them out?
    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
    A man dies and leaves his name,
    A teacher dies and teaches death.
    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

  • #2
    ?????

    What makes you think the UK would invoke Article 5 over the poisonings of two Russian expats? I would venture to say that, as bad as such things may be in the public eye, the assassinations of expats by various governments, for whatever infractions/betrayals are probably more common than one would think.

    I would not say that it is an every-day occurrence, but I think it happens often enough.....but I don't think it quite reaches the level of importance that a NATO member would invoke Article 5 over it.
    You'll live, only the best get killed.

    -General Charles de Gaulle

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    • #3
      Originally posted by asterix View Post
      ?????

      What makes you think the UK would invoke Article 5 over the poisonings of two Russian expats? I would venture to say that, as bad as such things may be in the public eye, the assassinations of expats by various governments, for whatever infractions/betrayals are probably more common than one would think.

      I would not say that it is an every-day occurrence, but I think it happens often enough.....but I don't think it quite reaches the level of importance that a NATO member would invoke Article 5 over it.
      It was a hypothetical.
      never said it would actually happen.
      the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

      A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
      A man dies and leaves his name,
      A teacher dies and teaches death.
      Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

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      • #4
        Its not even hypothetical, it reveals a woeful ignorance of NATO which is a defensive alliance. Members are only obliged under treaty terms if a member is attacked.under any other circumstances any joint NATO action is purely voluntary hence NATO members were not obliged to participate in Kosovo or Afghanistan.
        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          Its not even hypothetical, it reveals a woeful ignorance of NATO which is a defensive alliance. Members are only obliged under treaty terms if a member is attacked.under any other circumstances any joint NATO action is purely voluntary hence NATO members were not obliged to participate in Kosovo or Afghanistan.
          A covert military action resulting in death of a citizen doesn’t count as an attack?
          the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

          A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
          A man dies and leaves his name,
          A teacher dies and teaches death.
          Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MarkV View Post
            Its not even hypothetical, it reveals a woeful ignorance of NATO which is a defensive alliance. Members are only obliged under treaty terms if a member is attacked.under any other circumstances any joint NATO action is purely voluntary hence NATO members were not obliged to participate in Kosovo or Afghanistan.
            A covert military action resulting in death of a citizen doesn’t count as an attack?
            the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

            A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
            A man dies and leaves his name,
            A teacher dies and teaches death.
            Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
              A covert military action resulting in death of a citizen doesn’t count as an attack?
              It depends on the intensity and target of the covert attack. Are there masses of collateral casualties....or only the targets themselves? Agents sneaking into another nation to poison expats might well provoke public and political outrage. Any action that is deemed very sensitive to the public might force politicians to consider retaliatory responses such as sanctions, given economic options might by more effective. Worst case scenario would be a limited retaliatory response by the military or agents against target of equal value.

              However, nothing of this nature would warrant invoking NATO Article 5.
              You'll live, only the best get killed.

              -General Charles de Gaulle

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              • #8
                Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
                just a scenario I had in my head.
                if england demanded that Russia handed over the men accused of poisoning that guy and his daughter in the U.K. if Russia refused and the U.K. invoked article 5 and decided they were going to take military action to retrieve the assasins and a smaller NATO nation bordering Russia refused to be a part of military action against Russia can NATO members vote to kick them out?
                Hi General Jacke

                Leaving aside the rather fanciful scenario you've painted, the answer to your core question is Yes. Yes a country can be kicked out of NATO and that process would be done by the North Atlantic Council, though its requires a 100% consensus. However there has been some pressure to modify this aspect to a consensus minus 1 or a qualified majority. There are several members such as Hungary, Poland and Turkey who'd all have trouble saying that they would still meet the entry criteria given recent political developments.

                Regards

                Andy H

                "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                • #9
                  Given the precedent set by the USA after 9/11 the UK would attack Ukraine instead of Russia.
                  "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                  validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                  "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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