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  • Johan Banér
    replied
    I still think the summation someone gave already four years back holds up:

    "Brexit is like watching a good friend try to disembowel himself, while claiming the operation will give him magical powers."

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Meh - he's been threatening since January - he should be long gone by now...

    Boris Johnson warns the EU he is ready to walk away from trade talks without a deal in June
    https://www.businessinsider.nl/boris...onal=true&r=US

    He's worse than May she was forever threatening to "come to Brussels"

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  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    BoJo is threatening (again) to walk away from talks. He's like someone threatening to damage his neighbours house by burning his own one down. The absurd position of the BoJo and the Brexiteers doesn't seem to have changed at all since before the Brexit Referendum and their relationship with reality is as casual as ever.

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  • pamak
    replied
    I am just curious to hear how the pro-Brexit British see the issue of trade negotiations. Other than the problem of borders (which is very serious), do these Brtish supporters accept in general that they should not enjoy the same access to the European market that they had as EU members? I am asking because these days I do not take for granted even obvious answers

    I do not follow the developments closely, but from what I know, the EU is in the process of passing an 800? billion stimulus plan that will be primarily used to support the ecnomies of the hardest hit countries. Some of it will be in the form of loans and another in the form of grants (anybody can correct me if I am wrong). This means that in broader terms the northern European Union countries will pump money to the hard hit southern countries like Spain and Italy. During this process, the British were of course absent.

    Is there a reason for any northern European country that is an EU member to accept having the same access to the Italian or Spanish or Greek market with a country like the UK? It is like asking an investor who spends money in an economic project accepting that an outsider receiving the same access benefits.

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  • Michele
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post

    I'm fairly sure Boris is at the head because he's gonna be the fall-guy. Rest of the party will pick up the pieces and come up with an actual policy once the current situation is over...as they've kind of painted themselves in an awful corner.
    That had not occurred to me. Maybe. British posters could probably be better placed to assess this hypothesis.

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  • CarpeDiem
    replied
    Guess I wasn’t clear enough in my previous warning. So here we go next person who posts in this thread any comments of a personal nature or digs at another poster will lose posting privileges for a to be determined length of time. You want to act like children, you will be treated like children.
    ACG Staff
    Last edited by CarpeDiem; 05 Oct 20, 13:29.

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  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
    We obviously shouldn't. But a lot of the bridge burning is on the UK side, and an internal UK question about what kind of country the UK should be in the future? There is an open question how far in a direction that makes too much future rapprochement impossible the Tory government wants to pull UK society at large.
    I'm fairly sure Boris is at the head because he's gonna be the fall-guy. Rest of the party will pick up the pieces and come up with an actual policy once the current situation is over...as they've kind of painted themselves in an awful corner.

    Leave a comment:


  • CarpeDiem
    replied
    Drop the personal comments.
    Post like adults or don't post at all.
    Final warning for this thread.
    ACG Staff

    Leave a comment:


  • Dibble201Bty
    replied
    Originally posted by Metryll View Post

    Being a foreigner don't allow you to misreprent EU relations with UK as being with England.
    If you have difficulty in reading anything that I have posted, please quote the salient parts which it seems are bogus coming from you...

    Leave a comment:


  • Johan Banér
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    Never forget that only a narrow majority voted to leave,

    that translated into an absolute majority in parliament more due the deficiencies in their political system than anything else.

    We shouldn't burn all bridges, in a decade or two things may look very different.
    We obviously shouldn't. But a lot of the bridge burning is on the UK side, and an internal UK question about what kind of country the UK should be in the future? There is an open question how far in a direction that makes too much future rapprochement impossible the Tory government wants to pull UK society at large.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Never forget that only a narrow majority voted to leave,

    that translated into an absolute majority in parliament more due the deficiencies in their political system than anything else.

    We shouldn't burn all bridges, in a decade or two things may look very different.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metryll
    replied
    Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

    And you are from the land that gave the world Machiavelli.
    You're right of course.
    Actually no need for a Machiavel , Michele state what almost every European know. This is why some, like me, prefer the UK out : Better a willing out than an unwilling in.

    Leave a comment:


  • BELGRAVE
    replied
    Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
    You are always (okay, nearly always ) a bastion of reason.
    Yes, who doesn’t want it both ways but when the game is up and you have been called out most people accept that they aren’t going to get it both ways. BoJo and his masters are still insisting that they are in fact wearing clothes rather than covering their wobbly bits.




    When the government and a biased media are driving a particular message, wrapped up in jingoism and emotive rhetoric, it is not uncommon to see the people whipped up into a state where emotion trumps reason and self interest. This can happen with both right and left wing agendas and is in no way limited to England. I say England because it was England which voted the UK out of the EU.

    Fair enough, but overblown patriotism , as you say,has frequently and historically trumped pragmatic good reasoning- and not just in the UK.
    From my vantage point-ten thousand miles from the action- I think that BREXIT was a colossal mistake and the now complicated relations with Ireland is just one sticking point.

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  • BELGRAVE
    replied
    Originally posted by Michele View Post

    Huh, realistic and honest dealers?
    Anyway, the point is exactly the disagreement on achievability. The British government either thinks this is achievable, or wants to posture towards its voters as if it really believed it is achievable.
    The EU disagrees, as the infringement procedure makes it abundantly clear, and I would be surprised if anything good for Britain comes from this all.

    Naturally, there is a history to all of this attitude; it's not entirely the present hapless government's fault. The UK always tried to be with one foot inside the EU and the other outside it. Exceptions, exemptions, cherry-picking etc. They were largely successful, too.

    The problem that apparently doesn't come through to Bojo is that all of that was tolerated by the other partners because of that one foot in, which was considered better than nothing. Now he expects to be able to continue with the cherry-picking, while keeping a foot into the European market, but not in everything else. Not going to fly, I believe.




    Naturally. The interesting thing - at the interest level of the question "are there living micro-organisms on Mars?" for me, luckily not being a UK citizen - will be whether the Brexit voters will be again so monumentally be taken in by the Brexit leaders, when it will come to explain the debacle. My bet would be yes, given a) how they have swallowed a lot of baloney already and b) the presence of the ideal fall guy, the evil EU.
    And you are from the land that gave the world Machiavelli.
    You're right of course.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michele
    replied
    Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
    It is worth keeping in mind that the legal proceedings really have no relevance to the negotiations. The negotiations will likely continue however it should be kept in mind that it is very unlikely if not impossible for any agreement going through the EU parliament (let alone those of the member state parliaments) if the offending clauses from the IMB (and potential other legal matters) are still in place.

    It should be understood that from the EU perspective the dropping of those clauses from the IMB is a precondition for there to be any chance of ratification. So imagining - like some clearly do - it as acting as a tool for forcing the EU into concessions is not quite realistic. The EU will negotiate despite of it, but it is simply a waste of time if those clauses are not removed.
    Good sense and sound reason here. What is surprising is that explaining the above was needed in the first place.

    Leave a comment:

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