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  • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    Will if the proposition is, "we leave now, but for the time being all EU regulations will still apply as they were…." that will be hardly a problem I suspect....

    I doubt that'll go down well with the 50% Brits that voted for Brexit though

    Any chance for an election over there before Oct. 31st ?
    BJ did propose a ‘stand still’ period but the EU rejected the idea. Though the stand still was limited to cross border trade with no customs or tariffs.

    There is a fair chance of an election before 31st October but it would have to be called pretty soon after Parliament goes back in September. Boris has promised not to call one so will only happen if there is a vote of no confidence or Boris is blocked on a major item of policy, ie Brexit.
    On the later with a 17 point lead in the polls he would be on a hair trigger. Any block and he will call it and dispose of the rebels.
    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

      Err no.

      A sovereign country can make or break any treaty it wishes.
      Sure, but that unilateral withdrawal would result in a hard Brexit at that stage.

      Originally posted by Surrey View Post
      That is one of the main differences between being an independent state and being a colony.
      I know, Ireland used to be a British Colony.

      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
        Bullying and threats from the beloved EU?
        It is not a threat - it is a consequence. Contrary to what some seem to imagine the other countries will react.
        And the UK's quota of the cod in its own seas is what? About a third is it? Why is there a problem buying Icelandic or Norwegian cod and selling UK cod (or mackerel or herring or sole etc) ?
        Actually it seems to be about 50% (if including the part UK has sold off of its own quota). Sure, the UK can buy more from others. But it is unlikely that it can export at the current levels - which will actually end up hurting the UK fishing industry.
        Probably correct. But you still expect free access to UK fish for your own fleets!
        Actually i do not really care. I only mentioned that you would understand that the UK can not act in vacuum. If the UK acts to prevent other countries from fishing in the UK waters then there will be consequences. Just like the UK has sovereign right to choose how to use its EEZ so can the other countries use their sovereign right to react to it. That goes both ways too.
        If you can get the same fish caught in UK waters and if you can get it in the quantities currently supplied.
        Very likely to be no in both cases. Change of diet, to please the Brussels politburo.
        The UK is hardly the sole potential provider - there are others. And with the UK out the comparative advantage it had being part of the single market and the customs union will be gone. So what is likely to happen is that others will start taking over the markets previously held by the British since they have already have to deal with both tariff and non-tariff barriers which now will start affecting the British fish as well.
        Yes, that would be Goldfish.
        Shows how little you know. https://aquaculturemag.com/2018/09/1...ay-be-indoors/ & https://www.bioeconomy.fi/the-fish-o...cally-indoors/ and so on. That you were completely unaware that it already is happening doesn't really surprise me.
        You have just threatened the UK remember? Access to the EEZ for access to the market.
        Like i said before - that is not a threat. It is just a consequence. You can't really realistically imagine there being similar market access for some one outside the EU for free would you? The UK wanted this to happen - remember that referendum you had? Or did not consider the consequences there-off?
        Neither Norway nor Iceland will devastate their own fishing stocks, and thus long-term prosperity for the fishing industry, to meet the EU's capricious demands. Besides they'll be benefiting anyway from the sharply increased fish prices.
        It is unlikely that the EU would demand anything from Iceland or Norway - it might offer more and it might even increase the cost a bit. But you are forgetting that both Norway and Iceland already get that access to the market. The increase in cost would only give them more profit. While for the UK the increase in cost might not even overcome the barriers which the UK itself chose to erect between itself and the EU markets. Regardless from the fishing industry side only real winners would seem to be Icelanders and Norwegians.
        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

        Comment


        • The Uk's Alternative Arrangements Commission Report of the UK/Irish border is worth reading. It makes some good suggestions and gives some clarity to the issues but in essence it sees the solution as Ireland partially leaving the EU. This, of course, is a silly suggestion and shows a degree of arrogance which is not in the least bit surprising.
          "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
          validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
          "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

          Comment


          • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
            The Uk's Alternative Arrangements Commission Report of the UK/Irish border is worth reading. It makes some good suggestions and gives some clarity to the issues but in essence it sees the solution as Ireland partially leaving the EU. This, of course, is a silly suggestion and shows a degree of arrogance which is not in the least bit surprising.
            What Ireland does is Ireland’s decision weighing up the costs and benefits of each option. And Ireland is responsible for its own decisions as is any independent country.

            if the cost to Ireland of remaining in the EU were greater than the benefits than any rational government would consider leaving.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
              What Ireland does is Ireland’s decision weighing up the costs and benefits of each option. And Ireland is responsible for its own decisions as is any independent country.
              So was UK. Hmm wait, have not Brexiteers stated the exact opposite for years ?

              if the cost to Ireland of remaining in the EU were greater than the benefits than any rational government would consider leaving.
              Leaving a known 450 millions market for an hypothetical 65 millions is hardly rational...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Metryll View Post

                So was UK. Hmm wait, have not Brexiteers stated the exact opposite for years ?



                Leaving a known 450 millions market for an hypothetical 65 millions is hardly rational...
                Arguably the UK Brexiters have weighed the options. Their calculations however would seem to assume one set of parameters that apply for the UK, but some others for the Irish, or the Scottish for that matter, or the EU in general.

                Comment


                • BoJo has 30 days to come up with something solid, something that the UK had failed to do in the last 3 years.
                  Given his well known aversion to hard work and allergy to facts and substance I don't think he's going to be pulling any exit plan rabbits out of the Brexit hat.

                  The fact is that the UK, like every other EU member state, controls 99% of its economic and political decision making. For the last 50 years wealth in the UK has been moving to the South East and the London area in particular. That has nothing to do with the UK but everything to do with Brexit. London is the seat of power and the country is run for the benefit of those living there. Devolution was meant to address this to some extent but it failed. The people who voted for Brexit are right to be angry but they are angry at the wrong people. All the talk about fisheries and farmers and trade deals won't amount to a hill of beans for those people because they will continue to be at the back of the queue and will continue to get the economic crumbs.

                  That's the reality and Brexit is simply a brilliant piece of misdirection by the Etonian old boys who run the show.

                  Why Ireland, of anyone else, would ever dane to put themselves under the influence of such a group of amoral self serving parasites is beyond reason.
                  "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                  validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                  "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                    BoJo has 30 days to come up with something solid, something that the UK had failed to do in the last 3 years.
                    The EU is not looking for a solution. The EU is looking for a way to blame the UK.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                      The EU is not looking for a solution. The EU is looking for a way to blame the UK.
                      What blame? The UK is leaving the EU. The rules of the EU are open, obvious and in place. It is the UK that cannot decide what it wants. Vague aspirational notions are not the same as details. International agreements need details. The UK needs to come to the table with details.

                      How can the EU negotiate with someone who does not have a mandate to make an agreement?
                      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                        The EU is not looking for a solution. The EU is looking for a way to blame the UK.
                        Solution for what exactly ?

                        The negotiated agreement with the UK government was deemed unacceptable by the UK parliament.

                        Little the EU can do about that….

                        Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                          It is not a threat - it is a consequence. Contrary to what some seem to imagine the other countries will react.
                          Sure, just like if you don't hand over your wallet to the mugger, you must expect to be stabbed.

                          The UK is hardly the sole potential provider - there are others. And with the UK out the comparative advantage it had being part of the single market and the customs union will be gone. So what is likely to happen is that others will start taking over the markets previously held by the British since they have already have to deal with both tariff and non-tariff barriers which now will start affecting the British fish as well.
                          Fish, I repeat, are rarely a fungible commodity. Replacing the fish currently sourced in UK waters is likely to be impossible. Replacing the quantity is likely to be difficult and push even greater strain on the worlds overfished seas.
                          Still with the dream that you can tariff fish from UK fishermen but not EU fishermen in UK waters.


                          Shows how little you know. https://aquaculturemag.com/2018/09/1...ay-be-indoors/ & https://www.bioeconomy.fi/the-fish-o...cally-indoors/ and so on. That you were completely unaware that it already is happening doesn't really surprise me.
                          Fish farming has been around a long time. One of several the environmental drawbacks of fish farming is that the farmed fish tend to be fed more seafood than they actually produce at the end. D'oh!


                          It is unlikely that the EU would demand anything from Iceland or Norway - it might offer more and it might even increase the cost a bit. But you are forgetting that both Norway and Iceland already get that access to the market.
                          Replacing UK waters caught fish would require Iceland and Norway to increase their catch by about 30%. Why devastate their own stocks especially when the price they currently get is likely to increase by >30%?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                            What blame? The UK is leaving the EU. The rules of the EU are open, obvious and in place.
                            For when the Republic of Ireland erects a hard border with the North, breaking the GFA.

                            "Bad boy Britain made me do it!"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                              Solution for what exactly ?

                              The negotiated agreement with the UK government was deemed unacceptable by the UK parliament.

                              Little the EU can do about that….

                              They can re-enter negotiations.

                              If the EU chooses not to, then it is exactly that - a choice.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                                Sure, just like if you don't hand over your wallet to the mugger, you must expect to be stabbed.



                                Fish, I repeat, are rarely a fungible commodity. Replacing the fish currently sourced in UK waters is likely to be impossible. Replacing the quantity is likely to be difficult and push even greater strain on the worlds overfished seas.
                                Still with the dream that you can tariff fish from UK fishermen but not EU fishermen in UK waters.




                                Fish farming has been around a long time. One of several the environmental drawbacks of fish farming is that the farmed fish tend to be fed more seafood than they actually produce at the end. D'oh!




                                Replacing UK waters caught fish would require Iceland and Norway to increase their catch by about 30%. Why devastate their own stocks especially when the price they currently get is likely to increase by >30%?
                                Read that Iceland and Greenland were planning to dramatically increase their fishing regardless anyway.
                                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                                Comment

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