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  • Originally posted by MarkV View Post

    Part of the problem is that they want to be treated differently - when it suits them - hence different laws of marriage, abortion etc
    And there's already an all-island approach to agriculture with, in effect, a border on the Irish Sea.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

      Yes, true enough. But having their good and services customs checked when selling to another part of the United Kingdom (a vastly larger proportion of their trade than with the Republic or rest EU)?

      The other problem of course is that Parliament voted NO three times to the Withdrawal Agreement.
      In real life I can’t see any deal being passed by Parliament. Even if the EU did an about face and agreed an immediate FTA with no backstop and no bung to the Eurocrats the opposition and enough Tory rebels would vote against to stop it passing.
      So we are leaving on 31st without a deal and should prepare accordingly.
      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

        In real life I can’t see any deal being passed by Parliament. Even if the EU did an about face and agreed an immediate FTA with no backstop and no bung to the Eurocrats the opposition and enough Tory rebels would vote against to stop it passing.
        So we are leaving on 31st without a deal and should prepare accordingly.
        I agree. All that's happening now is pre-election posturing by BoJo.
        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

          In real life I can’t see any deal being passed by Parliament. Even if the EU did an about face and agreed an immediate FTA with no backstop and no bung to the Eurocrats the opposition and enough Tory rebels would vote against to stop it passing.
          So we are leaving on 31st without a deal and should prepare accordingly.
          Indeed. For all their squawking over leaving with a deal the Libdums, the SNP, Plaid and almost the entire Labour party voted against the Withdrawal Agreement. Three times. Even Boris voted for it on the third attempt.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

            The article you linked to is inaccurate in a number of areas.
            Firstly it states that the Backstop was an EU creation, tweaked by the UK. In fact the opposite it true.
            UK idea, the agreement text written by the EU.

            It also ignores the political declaration which emphasises the temporary nature of the backstop (it's only there until the UK puts in place the arrangements which it says it can put in place.
            The UK can only get rid of the backstop if the EU says that it can

            Comment


            • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

              I agree. All that's happening now is pre-election posturing by BoJo.
              For political reasons he needs to be seen to have made an effort but that is all. It is part of the phoney war before the inevitable autumn election.
              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                For political reasons he needs to be seen to have made an effort but that is all. It is part of the phoney war before the inevitable autumn election.
                Talking of which latest you gov poll gives Boris a 9 point lead. So things are looking good.
                Kantar are giving Boris a 17 point lead now. Seems all the talks about an opposition coup to install Corbyn or some ‘unity’ government without bothering to go through the inconvenience of an election has just boosted Boris’s popularity.
                Last edited by Surrey; 21 Aug 19, 08:03.
                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                  The UK can only get rid of the backstop if the EU says that it can
                  Both parties have to agree to the change. That's normally the case. The alternative being proposed by the UK is vague to say the least.
                  "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                  validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                  "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                  Comment


                  • The position of the UK that they won't put up any border infrastructure after Brexit would amount to them staying in the single market. Why on earth would the EU agree to that?
                    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                      The essence of their objection is that nobody believes them when they say that they'll "figure something out" by being "flexible and creative" in order to avoid a hard border between them and the EU. The UK wants the EU to play all of their trump cards now by negotiating a trade deal and trust the UK to come up with a border solution later.
                      What I hear here is that the expectation is to be for there to be another "extension", new elections in the UK, then a prolonged new negotiation wherein the actual Brexit and the border modalities are shoved in a single agreement.

                      Basically the "leaving", the future "border solution" and "trade agreement", negotiated in combination which will take years.

                      For that you'd need a secure UK government, backed by a solid majority - not the improvisation team you have now.

                      Oh, and a minor fish war with the French to appease the hardliners on both sides
                      Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                        It's here.
                        That appears to be a letter to the Irish (PM ?) which just happens to be forwarded to the EU.

                        Few outside Ireland and the UK will have any idea what's it all about I fear.

                        Edit, for example Donald Tusks term as president ends Nov. 30th. this year, he's probably rearranging flower pots in his office, preparing to become Polish PM or president or something like that, fat chance he'll care about the Irish border or fish in the North Sea much longer…....
                        Last edited by Snowygerry; 21 Aug 19, 08:54.
                        Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                          Both parties have to agree to the change. That's normally the case. The alternative being proposed by the UK is vague to say the least.
                          Err no.

                          A sovereign country can make or break any treaty it wishes. That is one of the main differences between being an independent state and being a colony.
                          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                          Comment


                          • Also it is interesting that BJ mentions a "transition period" post Brexit, that too was an idea of May, an (unspecified) period when even though the UK has formally left the EU, all EU regulations will still apply.

                            If so - Oct. 31st. and the actual "leaving" will be an empty box no ?
                            Last edited by Snowygerry; 21 Aug 19, 09:19.
                            Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                              Also it is interesting that BJ mentions a "transition period" post Brexit, that too was an idea of May, an (unspecified) period when even though the UK has formally left the EU, all EU regulations will still apply.

                              If so - Oct. 31st. and the actual "leaving" will be an empty box no ?
                              To have a transition period there needs some form of deal to be agreed. Doesn’t look likely at the moment. Hence we will probably be leaving for real on the 31st October.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                                To have a transition period there needs some form of deal to be agreed.
                                Will if the proposition is, "we leave now, but for the time being all EU regulations will still apply as they were…." that will be hardly a problem I suspect....

                                I doubt that'll go down well with the 50% Brits that voted for Brexit though

                                Any chance for an election over there before Oct. 31st ?

                                Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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