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  • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

    For the Belgium market? That seems a bit odd. Why don't they just land them in a Belgium port?
    Why? It's all the Common Market, it's literally all the same.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
      Why? It's all the Common Market, it's literally all the same.
      Because it would take longer to get to market?

      Pretty important I would have thought if you wanted the fish fresh.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

        Because it would take longer to get to market?

        Pretty important I would have thought if you wanted the fish fresh.
        Not if it's quicker to land the catch like that. How it gets to the consumer is another matter.

        Really, I continue to get the vibe that somewhere deep down your idea of the Eu common market is somehow still that is the sum of all the little national markets, still operating first as national markets?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
          For the Belgium market? That seems a bit odd. Why don't they just land them in a Belgium port?
          Sailing a boat is costly I imagine, better to offload quickly, sell, cash, and then fish some more untill you reach a certain agreed upon quotum, repeat, then dock to save cost untill you go out again.

          Unless they are getting processed in the UK too ?
          For some fish it doesn't really matter, there's no difference between a "British" cod or a "Belgian" cod, shrimp for example is often marketed as "Belgian" implying a certain quality, so is salmon, which is often indicated to be Norweigian or Scottish….

          I'm no marine economist - but it appears to me to be a simple function of the the market, dock in the nearest port to sell your cheap perishable goods quickly, save cargo space and fuel cost

          Presumably - when they eventually do return home they're full once again, hopefully with a selection of fish that they know will fetch good prices at the local market, that's I think the "fresh" fish you can buy in Oostende and Nieuwpoort restaurants and Zeebrugge fish markets.

          http://www.vlvis.be/Home/About

          The mission of the Flemish fish auction is to bring together the supply and demand of fresh wild fish in order to obtain the best price for producers and buyers.

          The supply of fish are sold over the internet in real-time and on a network which connects 3 clocks namely in Zeebrugge, Ostend and Nieuwpoort.

          Every year about 17 million kilograms of fish find their way through wholesalers to consumers in all Europe.
          Last edited by Snowygerry; 20 Aug 19, 02:55.
          High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
          Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
            Sure it wouldn't. The UK sets the quotas but it wouldn't give more to its own fishermen.
            Then it would do nothing to solve the UK issue with both exporting the fish they don't like and importing the fish they like. And for that to happen in any manner resembling something as profitable as what it currently is you are going to need market access. And price for that will almost certainly be access to fish in the UK EEZ.
            The UKs quota of cod from the Celtic sea is 7%. 51% of all cod landed from the Celtic sea is in UK waters.
            PDF downloadable here https://www.gov.uk/government/consul...re-generations

            The collapse, again, of cod stocks in the North Sea can again be squarely laid at the door of the Common Fisheries Policy.
            Just as stocks had recovered by 2015 (after the massive decline since the 1970s) the CFP laid quotas (the UK gets just 40%) that were greatly in excess of scientific recommendations.
            Because populist politicians managed to get their hands into made those decisions, not the scientists. And who exactly do you have aiming to make those decisions? Politicians who quite clearly are willing to pawn the whole of the UK as long as it keeps them in power. Do you really honestly thing that the lot you have would be any more willing to listen to the scientifical advice than what the EU is? Given how they are even now grasping on straws instead of analyzing the Brexit (and hence understanding why the EU has done what it has) properly. Evidence ain't favorable for you.

            Besides the point the data i linked showed that there is not nearly enough cod in the UK waters even if the UK had exclusive fishing access to it. According to that data the UK consumes rough 5 x as much as the whole of the yield from the UK waters is in total. So you need to import. Or change diet.
            It is rather bizarre that you think the EU can deny market access to UK fish.
            Deny the access like it currently has. The UK is currently part of the EU. That brings certain perks which especially with fish are rather crucial. After Brexit the UK ships would no longer be able to land fish to the EU ports (since that requires an agreement). This means that the UK fish can no longer be delivered to the markets fresh (which is a key on getting premium price) which decreases its value, which decreases its profitability. Additionally there will be tariffs, there will be sanitary checks, and whole lot of other non-tariff barriers all of which will add to the cost and further decreases the competitiveness of the UK fish. So would some one be able to buy UK fish afterwards, sure - but why would they? The relative cost of the UK fish would only increase - if the UK could try to cut on the 'red tape'/'regulation' side then it would likely not be allowed to the market so that part can't really yield. In short it would be cheaper to buy from somewhere else.
            Fish are rarely a fungible commodity. Other countries are not going to be able to supply the EU the over 1,000,000 tons of fish taken from UK waters.
            Maybe, maybe not. The EU has been investing a lot on growing fish in indoor tanks - this might also trigger boost for local industries on that branch. How it turns out remains to be seen. Regardless the profitability of the UK fish will go down the drain - it will just be cheaper to buy either somewhere else or just something else.
            Tariff free import of fish caught in EU waters.
            Except with Brexit that won't be the case.
            And what is the EU going to threaten Iceland and Norway with, when they are told to faen av/andskoti about the demand to supply a million extra tons of fish?
            Threaten? Why would they need to be threatened? This looks actually rather promising for Iceland and Norway - with UK fish behind tariff and non-tariff barriers their fish will be relatively speaking more attractive to the EU. They will likely be the only ones to actually profit from this fishing debacle.
            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

            Comment


            • Today Boris is meeting Angela but nothing will change.
              The UK backstop (formerly the Northern Ireland backstop), which is now being referred to in the British media as the Irish nackstop, will not be removed from the Withdrawal agreement which the UK has already negotiated with the EU. The patronising insubstantial letter which BoJo sent to the EU was written for the benefit of the Tory Brexiteers and the DUP, not for the EU or the UK. A hard Brexit is now inevitable. The fact that I put E100 on this outcome the day after the Brexit vote is small comfort for me.
              Last edited by E.D. Morel; 21 Aug 19, 04:11.
              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

              Comment


              • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                Today Boris is meeting Angela but nothing will change.
                The UK backstop (formerly the Northern Ireland backstop), which is now being referred to in the British media as the Irish nackstop, will not be removed from the Withdrawal agreement which the UK has already negotiated with the EU. The patronising insubstantial letter which BoJo sent to the EU was written for the benefit of the Tory Brexiteers and the DUP, not for the EU or the UK. A hard Brexit is now inevitable. The fact that I put €100 on this outcome the day after the Brexit vote is small comfort for me.
                Was it published ?

                High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
                Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                  Then it would do nothing to solve the UK issue with both exporting the fish they don't like and importing the fish they like. And for that to happen in any manner resembling something as profitable as what it currently is you are going to need market access. And price for that will almost certainly be access to fish in the UK EEZ.
                  Bullying and threats from the beloved EU? That will work


                  Besides the point the data i linked showed that there is not nearly enough cod in the UK waters even if the UK had exclusive fishing access to it. According to that data the UK consumes rough 5 x as much as the whole of the yield from the UK waters is in total. So you need to import. Or change diet.
                  And the UK's quota of the cod in its own seas is what? About a third is it? Why is there a problem buying Icelandic or Norwegian cod and selling UK cod (or mackerel or herring or sole etc) ?

                  Deny the access like it currently has. The UK is currently part of the EU. That brings certain perks which especially with fish are rather crucial. After Brexit the UK ships would no longer be able to land fish to the EU ports (since that requires an agreement). This means that the UK fish can no longer be delivered to the markets fresh (which is a key on getting premium price) which decreases its value, which decreases its profitability. Additionally there will be tariffs, there will be sanitary checks, and whole lot of other non-tariff barriers all of which will add to the cost and further decreases the competitiveness of the UK fish.
                  Probably correct. But you still expect free access to UK fish for your own fleets!

                  So would some one be able to buy UK fish afterwards, sure - but why would they? The relative cost of the UK fish would only increase - if the UK could try to cut on the 'red tape'/'regulation' side then it would likely not be allowed to the market so that part can't really yield. In short it would be cheaper to buy from somewhere else.
                  If you can get the same fish caught in UK waters and if you can get it in the quantities currently supplied.
                  Very likely to be no in both cases. Change of diet, to please the Brussels politburo.

                  Maybe, maybe not. The EU has been investing a lot on growing fish in indoor tanks
                  Yes, that would be Goldfish.

                  Threaten? Why would they need to be threatened? This looks actually rather promising for Iceland and Norway - with UK fish behind tariff and non-tariff barriers their fish will be relatively speaking more attractive to the EU. They will likely be the only ones to actually profit from this fishing debacle.
                  You have just threatened the UK remember? Access to the EEZ for access to the market.

                  Neither Norway nor Iceland will devastate their own fishing stocks, and thus long-term prosperity for the fishing industry, to meet the EU's capricious demands.
                  Besides they'll be benefiting anyway from the sharply increased fish prices.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                    Was it published ?
                    https://www.scribd.com/document/4224...een&from_embed


                    Good article here on why the backstop is not acceptable.


                    https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...ckstop/595567/

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                      Was it published ?
                      It's here.

                      It is simply incredible that he is now presenting the Backstop as a threat to the Good Friday Agreement. It is lies like that which show that the current UK government cannot be trusted to act honourably, as if more proof was needed.

                      The essence of their objection is that nobody believes them when they say that they'll "figure something out" by being "flexible and creative" in order to avoid a hard border between them and the EU. The UK wants the EU to play all of their trump cards now by negotiating a trade deal and trust the UK to come up with a border solution later.

                      While lamenting the lack of democratic access by the people of Northern Ireland to decisions which will affect them in the case of a Brexit with a Backstop he is ignoring the fact that two thirds of the people in Northern Ireland support the Backstop.
                      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                        It is simply incredible that he is now presenting the Backstop as a threat to the Good Friday Agreement
                        <snip>
                        in the case of a Brexit with a Backstop he is ignoring the fact that two thirds of the people in Northern Ireland support the Backstop.
                        Leaving aside your dubious fraction. The Good Friday Agreement is about respecting both communities.

                        By treating Northern Ireland differently from the rest of the UK runs against Unionist wishes.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                          Leaving aside your dubious fraction. The Good Friday Agreement is about respecting both communities.

                          By treating Northern Ireland differently from the rest of the UK runs against Unionist wishes.
                          Part of the problem is that they want to be treated differently - when it suits them - hence different laws of marriage, abortion etc
                          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                            Part of the problem is that they want to be treated differently - when it suits them - hence different laws of marriage, abortion etc
                            Yes, true enough. But having their good and services customs checked when selling to another part of the United Kingdom (a vastly larger proportion of their trade than with the Republic or rest EU)?

                            The other problem of course is that Parliament voted NO three times to the Withdrawal Agreement.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                              Good article here on why the backstop is not acceptable.


                              https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...ckstop/595567/
                              The article you linked to is inaccurate in a number of areas.
                              Firstly it states that the Backstop was an EU creation, tweaked by the UK. In fact the opposite it true.
                              Secondly it states that Northern Ireland would follow EU regulations while Britain would not. That is also inaccurate as it was changed to a UK wide backstop at Theresa May's request after the DUP said they would pull the plug on her government if she didn't change it.
                              It also ignores the political declaration which emphasises the temporary nature of the backstop (it's only there until the UK puts in place the arrangements which it says it can put in place.
                              It also states that it is Ireland, and Leo Varadkar in particular, will take front and center in the negotiations which take place during the transitional period to replace the backstop. This is or course also false and first and foremost this is an EU border and any agreement is open to third party claims based on WTO (GATT) rules.

                              While the UK media is playing along with the Tory campaign to frame this as a problem created by the Irish Government that just isn't washing on the mainland and people in the UK should be cognizant of that.
                              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                                Leaving aside your dubious fraction. The Good Friday Agreement is about respecting both communities.
                                The Daily Express is hardly a pro-Irish paper. They, along with much of the Irish media, ran the results of the pole. It was ignored by the rest of the Brexit Press.

                                Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                                By treating Northern Ireland differently from the rest of the UK runs against Unionist wishes.
                                See the link; the majority of Unionists do not support the DUP's stance on Brexit.
                                "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                                validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                                "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                                Comment

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