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  • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
    I think the "Barnier graph" can do with another airing:
    The UK needs to pick one of these. Beginning with changing some of the "red lines" the May government straddled the process with early on.
    No. The UK cannot pick the Free Trade agreement.

    Discussions about a trade deal cannot happen until after the Withdrawal Agreement. That is what the EU decided, remember?

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    • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
      So in the end all the Europeans would end up paying for the privilege of having the UK decide their trade and economic policies through that nifty informal mechanism. While at the same time accepting UK's uniquely privileged position of enjoying all the benefits of the EU, with none of the obligations, everyone else paying for this immense British entitlement while also – probably the most unrealistic bit – none of them even voicing an opinion about whether under the circumstances, seeing the astonishing list of unique UK perks, should not be extended to them all...
      Clearly you have no idea either how delusional, or insulting, you actually are. Sheer obliviousness is a balm for the soul I'm sure.
      Blablabla.


      EU trade with the UK is worth about €400,000,000,000 a year to the EU 27

      The Commissions pig headedness will lose them a large chunk of that.

      Money talks and bulls hit walks and you're running.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post


        IMHO, what we are seeing now is a replay of Napoleon's Continental system. Didn't work out to well for hIm in the end, now did it?
        The model for the Penal Code in Europe and the introduction of the Metric System?
        In fact the way the Metric System was rejected by the UK is almost exactly mirrored in the current situation.

        plus ça change...................

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        • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
          . Unfortunately the UK Brexiteers with a strangle-hold on government....... .
          That group has now been completely sidelined.You could see the terror in Rees-Mogg's eyes recently when he went on TV and told everyone he had surrendered and he would now vote for May's deal. Problem was by them the deal was no longer on the table. This has to be the most spectacular own goal in the history of Parliament. A small group of looneys who had a stranglehold on negotiations threw it away by their increasingly crackpot demands. I now love watching Rees Mogg being interviewed. He has had all the fight knocked out of him and is using increasingly bitter and divisive words. No longer is he the self-deprecating 'twit'. That mask has gone and been replaced by the mean and vindictive inner man-his real self. Turns out that when denied his prize he simply is not a very nice person.

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          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
            EU trade with the UK is worth about €400,000,000,000 a year to the EU 27

            The Commissions pig headedness will lose them a large chunk of that.

            Money talks and bulls hit walks and you're running.
            Yes, some of that trade will be lost. Not all of it though. That is well known and recognized in the EU. However it is also recognized that allowing the UK partial access would very likely - in fact almost certainly - end up costing far more to the EU in the long run. Also it might end up undermining the EU as a whole and - contrary to what some people believe in the UK and USA - the EU has already become something greater than mere economic union, so some economic loss might have to be taken in order to preserve it.
            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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            • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
              the EU has already become something greater than mere economic union, so some economic loss might have to be taken in order to preserve it.
              The looneys really really believe the UK is the foundation and originator of any EU success. They believe 'we' run it and that 'we' finance it and without The UK The EU will stagnate and implode. They can not comprehend a situation where this 'obvious-to-them' fact would allow the EU to eject its cash-cow driving force they will eventually cave in and grant the UK any deal it cares to demand. You simply can not penetrate that mindset.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                Also it might end up undermining the EU as a whole and - contrary to what some people believe in the UK and USA - the EU has already become something greater than mere economic union, so some economic loss might have to be taken in order to preserve it.
                Meh. Your dream of EUrope is already over, you just haven't realised it yet.
                And by not putting the economic interests of its members first and foremost the EU is just going to prove what the majority of British people always suspected - that the EU is just a bit sh!t really.

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                • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                  ....
                  It is all kinds of various things, the commitments the UK made to various long running EU projects, pensions, and so on. And it wouldn't be a single payment but series of much smaller yearly payments (of various sizes) lasting IIRC to around 2040 (due some pension payment things) ....
                  Whoa... pension payments, to people who are not even employed in or by the UK and as likely to be working against the UK's interests as they are to be for it?
                  Wow.... looks like I was very right about how lucrative working in the EU bureaucracy is.

                  Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                  Now that is just crazy talk. There is nothing such going on. Simply the consequences of the UK leaving the customs union and the single market. The massive whining from certain people from the UK is the result of their realization that their dreams of being outside of the EU while enjoying all of its perks collapsed when their dream version of Brexit finally hit the cold and hard reality. There is no blocking of trade with the UK - however it would happen on the same principles and rules as what the EU trade with other third countries happens with.
                  Okay, I can see that.
                  As far as I have seen, nobody dithers the way a British politician can!

                  However, that also looks like this is the kind of tactic someone that was opposed to Brexit from the start would gum things up, delay and make things look ten times worse than they actually are. 'Its how the 5th Column rolls.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                    Meh. Your dream of EUrope is already over, you just haven't realised it yet...................
                    .
                    Where have I heard that before...............ah yes the Greek crisis when the loonies were rubbing their hands in rapture as they looked forward to the implosion of Ireland's economy and their wet-dream-the break-up of the EU.
                    Remind me how that turned out........

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                      Whoa... pension payments, to people who are not even employed in or by the UK and as likely to be working against the UK's interests as they are to be for it?
                      They were employed by the union in which the UK was a member at the time of their employment. It is not more than what the UK owns to them. It is likely the pensions of the UK citizens who worked for the EU. However the pension part is just a minor detail of that - the UK commitments into ongoing EU projects are however much larger.
                      Wow.... looks like I was very right about how lucrative working in the EU bureaucracy is.
                      I personally think they are overpaid but it is apparently more southern European (and British) custom to pay civil servants more to make sure that they are harder to bribe and also to make sure that the relatively small EU bureaucracy (the size of the 'massive EU bureaucracy' at 60 000 is smaller than many cities and about 15% of what the UK Home Civil Service alone) attracts the best and the brightest. I personally think the high salary attracts the greediest alongside the rest but i digress...
                      As far as I have seen, nobody dithers the way a British politician can!
                      I'm not sure if it is about dithering but i think it is about different political background. The British FPTP system seems to be leading to a case where there is no culture of compromise or finding a mutually acceptable solutions but instead it concentrates on kicking the opponents and sticking it into them after you have won. And now that there is no absolute majority the whole thing is utter shambles.
                      However, that also looks like this is the kind of tactic someone that was opposed to Brexit from the start would gum things up, delay and make things look ten times worse than they actually are. 'Its how the 5th Column rolls.
                      Well, that is the at the UK has been doing. Supposedly expecting the EU to cave in before the UK stance. The EU has been trying to push the UK to make a decision for well over a year now but the UK has been dragging its heels.
                      It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                        3 years ago the British people demanded Brexit, there is still no Brexit because the opponents of Brexit are delaying it,hoping that this would kill Brexit .
                        How long took it for the 1975 referendum to be implemented ?
                        52% of the British people who voted demanded Brexit, not the British people.
                        Legally, the referendum was not binding.

                        The fact that the government said it would implement the result should be of no significance to you;
                        after all, aren't you the one continously claiming that all politicians are liars?

                        67% of the British who voted demanded joining the EU.

                        67% vs 52%. Do you really wonder why joining the EU went a lot smoother than getting out of it?
                        Last edited by Rutger; 08 Apr 19, 13:38.
                        "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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                        • Oh, and by the way: the British people if asked again to vote would have a majority for remain.
                          "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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                          • Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                            52% of the British people who voted demanded Brexit, not the British people.
                            Legally, the referendum was not binding.

                            The fact that the government said it would implement the result should be of no significance to you;
                            after all, aren't you the one continously claiming that all politicians are liars?

                            67% of the British who voted demanded joining the EU.

                            67% vs 52%. Do you really wonder why joining the EU went a lot smoother than getting out of it?
                            52 % is a majority as is 67 % . Those who oppose Brexit by delaying it ,do not respect the result of the referendum and are not democrats .

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                              52 % is a majority as is 67 % . Those who oppose Brexit by delaying it ,do not respect the result of the referendum and are not democrats .
                              It is like the system in the USA where the person who comes second in the popular vote 'wins'
                              Isn't that country held up as a model of democracy?

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                              • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                                52 % is a majority as is 67 % . Those who oppose Brexit by delaying it ,do not respect the result of the referendum and are not democrats .
                                No, they are not. They are Leftists, and those people have no respect for anything at all that could stand against their agenda.
                                Including the law.
                                And IMHO, they would have had a re-vote already if they really thought they could win it. The Party Bosses, I mean. The small-timers still think they could win a re-vote because the same people who told them Hillary must win and Italy would always be reliable said so.

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