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  • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    The EU is determined that this instance of rebellion be punished most severely, and that if the U.K. actually shows some backbone and leaves.... that it be so economically devastated that no other's dare follow.
    The EU is saddened that the UK leaves but it is not punishing the UK for it. The EU has merely lined out what the consequences of the said actions would be. That the EU looks out for the interests of the EU as a whole as well as for the EU27 is not the same as punishing the UK. It really doesn't need to punish the UK, the consequences of the Brexit are severe enough without any punishments. Only for a spoiled & pampered princess who is accustomed to always getting everything she demands would this seem like a punishment.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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    • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
      The EU is saddened that the UK leaves but it is not punishing the UK for it. The EU has merely lined out what the consequences of the said actions would be. That the EU looks out for the interests of the EU as a whole as well as for the EU27 is not the same as punishing the UK. It really doesn't need to punish the UK, the consequences of the Brexit are severe enough without any punishments. Only for a spoiled & pampered princess who is accustomed to always getting everything she demands would this seem like a punishment.
      Damn, did all of you guys study how to speak like you are in the USSR?

      Okay, fine, there are deals to be worked out, so what's the hang-up, specifically?

      Last I heard, the EU wants 40 Billion in cold, hard cash forked over, and they want it now.
      Seeing as how the Uk always pays more in than it ever received, how is that fair?

      IMHO, what we are seeing now is a replay of Napoleon's Continental system. Didn't work out to well for hm in the end, now did it?
      "Why is the Rum gone?"

      -Captain Jack

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      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

        There can be only one kind of Brexit : a no deal Brexit . Britain,and all other countries,have the right to say : we leave . And there is no need for any deal with Brussels .Britain does not need the consent of the others to leave : it is the same for NATO : if a member wants to leave Nato ,he does not need the consent of the other members .
        That you see no deal Brexit as sole meaning of Brexit is your opinion, not a fact. Last GE did not gave ERG a majority within Tory and even less among Parliament. Hence either a GE is not 'will of people' or this 'will' does not match your preference. No one in EU is keeping UK from leaving, only waiting for British to state what they want.
        Last edited by Metryll; 08 Apr 19, 01:57.

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        • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post

          Damn, did all of you guys study how to speak like you are in the USSR?
          Anyone not sharing your view is either a communist or a facist. No surprise you completely misunderstand events happening in real world.

          Okay, fine, there are deals to be worked out, so what's the hang-up, specifically?
          The deal is how UK is willing to leave EU. Note that in real world this is UK withelding the process not the reverse. May plan had been accepted by EU and then rejected by British Parliement.

          Last I heard, the EU wants 40 Billion in cold, hard cash forked over, and they want it now.
          EU wants its member to honour their comintment. The 39 billion is a debt.

          Seeing as how the Uk always pays more in than it ever received, how is that fair?
          Like Germany, France and about half of EU members. The same goes true in USA in which some States pay more and other receive more.

          IMHO, what we are seeing now is a replay of Napoleon's Continental system. Didn't work out to well for hm in the end, now did it?
          What we are seeing now is a group of individual who rather to deal with reality prefer, eyes closed and finger in the ears to throw funny sentence in the air with the hope that they will have any relationship with reality.

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          • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
            EU wants its member to honour their comintment. The 39 billion is a debt.
            When France pays its war debts to the USA, and Germany makes good its compensation to the Jews, then the UK can worry about whether or not they owe the EU anything.

            Because honoring debts applies both ways.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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            • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

              When France pays its war debts to the USA, and Germany makes good its compensation to the Jews, then the UK can worry about whether or not they owe the EU anything.

              Because honoring debts applies both ways.

              You're funny. I know you don't mean to be but you are.

              Should the Mongols pay for the trips their ancestors took to Central Asia and the Middle East? Should the Europeans move back east of the Appellations? Should the USA pay reparations to Mexico for the land it took in a war of blatant expansionist aggression? Should they pay reparations to the Black slaves they used to help build their country or the Japanese Americans they interned during the Second World War?
              Off topic maybe?

              Try to stick to the point, there's a good lad.
              This is about Brexit.
              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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              • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post

                The EU is determined that this instance of rebellion be punished most severely, and that if the U.K. actually shows some backbone and leaves.... that it be so economically devastated that no other's dare follow.
                The most lucrative political position$ in the world depend on it, as do the Globalist stranglehold on that continent.


                And that's total horse-pucky with sprinkles on top.

                The EU has accommodated the half-arsed British Brexit decisions there have been. Which is mostly the backstop agreement, which the British government proposed and drafted, and the EU has accepted to deliver to the British. But that requires parliament to make the decision to implement it, and it has not.

                At the same time parliament has made the decision that Britain is NOT to leave the EU without an agreement (no crash-out), except they so far have been entirely unable to decide what that agreement is supposed to look like. Except it won't be the agreement the government has agreed with the EU. And then it has proceeded to test the waters of a dozen or so more or less unrealistic propositions, and turned them ALL down.

                So the UK has decided to leave, except is has decided it won't leave on the terms its own government has proposed and agreed, and it had proposed no other terms on which it is supposed to leave. And none of that has anything at all to do with the EU side. It's a massive failure of British political leadership. Effectively the UK currently lacks a functioning government.

                All the EU has done is insist it will not engage in actual self-harm on the UK's behalf. Unfortunately the UK Brexiteers with a strangle-hold on government apparently assumed the EU was "not serious" about its decisions to not actually harm itself over Brexit. When it turned out the EU was actually serious, the Brexiteers ended up with no plan at all, and no appetite for making the necessary decisions to actually Brexit. They might still want to, however they do not want the responsibility for the decision. So here we all are...

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                • Originally posted by Trung Si View Post

                  Who in the hell is the EU to tell a sovereign Nation what they can or can't do? It's not like the United States where we were under one Constitution, I am fairly sure the UK has their own.
                  It isn't. That's just US right-wing bad-faith BS.

                  The EU has agreed to implement what the UK government has proposed over Brexit, while accepting the UK "red lines". The problem is that there is no majority in the British parliament for anything the British government has proposed and agreed with the EU. Worse, there is no alternative plan. So the whole thing is stuck in limbo.

                  But at no point has the EU told the UK anything about any of it. Except that it rather not see the British go, and that there is still room for the UK to change its mind, if that is what it wants...

                  The problem is that the UK hasn't so much changed its mind, but gone completely senile, unable to decide anything and move either forwards or backwards.

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                  • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                    Okay, fine, there are deals to be worked out, so what's the hang-up, specifically?
                    The EU already agreed to the deal on the table. It is the UK which can not decide if it agrees to it, rejects, reverts the whole thing, or asks a long delay. The EU has already stated that it can renegotiate the deal should the UK change its red lines but the current deal is what it is because of the UK's own demands.
                    Last I heard, the EU wants 40 Billion in cold, hard cash forked over, and they want it now. Seeing as how the Uk always pays more in than it ever received, how is that fair?
                    It is all kinds of various things, the commitments the UK made to various long running EU projects, pensions, and so on. And it wouldn't be a single payment but series of much smaller yearly payments (of various sizes) lasting IIRC to around 2040 (due some pension payment things) - regardless from what i understood the yearly payment would stay smaller than the annual EU 'membership fee'.
                    IMHO, what we are seeing now is a replay of Napoleon's Continental system. Didn't work out to well for hm in the end, now did it?
                    Now that is just crazy talk. There is nothing such going on. Simply the consequences of the UK leaving the customs union and the single market. The massive whining from certain people from the UK is the result of their realization that their dreams of being outside of the EU while enjoying all of its perks collapsed when their dream version of Brexit finally hit the cold and hard reality. There is no blocking of trade with the UK - however it would happen on the same principles and rules as what the EU trade with other third countries happens with.
                    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
                      EU wants its member to honour their comintment. The 39 billion is a debt.
                      No, the Euro 39 billion is not a debt. Nowhere on any British official documentation will you see it referred to as such. It is a 'financial settlement' for committments made whilst the UK was a member - under English Law we are probably not liable for these - pension liabilities and so forth.

                      What is still a debt however is the £653,000,000 that France still owes the UK from World War I.

                      That debt coincidentally would be £39,370,354,075 today.

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                      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                        No, the Euro 39 billion is not a debt.
                        Quite, it is NOT a debt. But it IS a UK commitment. If the UK fails to honour it, then it's a debt.

                        Reneging on your commitments, putting yourself in any kind of debt as a consequence, tends to be bad policy for both states and individuals.

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                        • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                          All the EU has done is insist it will not engage in actual self-harm
                          Actually by being intransigent as regards a free-trade deal with the UK, economic self-harm is exactly what the EU will achieve.

                          Fortunately for the EU a lot of MPs over here are bending over backwards to prevent this EU self-harming.

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                          • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                            Quite, it is NOT a debt. But it IS a UK commitment. If the UK fails to honour it, then it's a debt.
                            Of for farks sake, no it is not a debt. Under English Law we would probably not be liable for paying those committments either.

                            Reneging on your commitments, putting yourself in any kind of debt as a consequence, tends to be bad policy for both states and individuals.

                            Which is pretty funny considering 20th Century Germany is probably the biggest debt defaulter in history.

                            Not paying debts is usually very beneficial to indivduals and states.

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                            • I think the "Barnier graph" can do with another airing:
                              Bildresultat för barnier graph
                              The UK needs to pick one of these. Beginning with changing some of the "red lines" the May government straddled the process with early on.

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                              • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                                Actually by being intransigent as regards a free-trade deal with the UK, economic self-harm is exactly what the EU will achieve.

                                Fortunately for the EU a lot of MPs over here are bending over backwards to prevent this EU self-harming.
                                Well, you're one of these people who thought this would be settled by the British government leaning on the German auto-industry, to lean on the German government, to whip the other 26 European into line to deliver a Brexit where the UK would be allowed to pick à la carte all the bits the UK might like, and drop anything it might not like.

                                So in the end all the Europeans would end up paying for the privilege of having the UK decide their trade and economic policies through that nifty informal mechanism. While at the same time accepting UK's uniquely privileged position of enjoying all the benefits of the EU, with none of the obligations, everyone else paying for this immense British entitlement while also – probably the most unrealistic bit – none of them even voicing an opinion about whether under the circumstances, seeing the astonishing list of unique UK perks, should not be extended to them all...

                                Clearly you have no idea either how delusional, or insulting, you actually are. Sheer obliviousness is a balm for the soul I'm sure.
                                https://youtu.be/ZIJ92NbW82M
                                Last edited by Johan Banér; 08 Apr 19, 07:10.

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