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  • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

    We live in a democracy. 50% plus one is enough.
    But it's not a mandate. Can't speak for the UK, but in the US, treaties with foreign powers require a two-thirds majority for ratification. That legality aside, amending the UK's foreign policy, her relationships with her closest neighbors, in such a radical way should require a little more than 50%+1. And it's that lack of mandate that has Parliament looking rather lost. Politicians by nature are followers, not leaders. They're trying to predict which way the winds will blow next week, next month, next election cycle. The "leave" majority is so slim, so variable depending on which polls you read, that the MPs really don't know which way to go. The people have spoken, but not plainly -- not to any national politician's satisfaction, at any rate. By hook or by crook, to settle Brexit one way or the other, I can't see it happening without a general election.
    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

      The vote may have been driven in part by there being no UK referenda on the various treaties. Many of the European countries had votes on the various treaties, Britain did not.
      Will of British government, not an EU decision.

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      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
        One test on the likelyhoid of a wto exit is how panicky the Irish get. From the reaction of the Irish poster Wto is now looking very likely.
        The prospect of the English pissing away an Irish future... again (and apparently crowing about it). What's not to like?

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        • I also find that lack of a need for supermajority to be very peculiar. Here the constitutional level changes require either (I) passing with the sitting parliament and then passing on supermajority (2/3) of the next parliament or (II) if it is urgent then it can be done by the sitting parliament with 5/6 majority. Of course in the British system the winner takes it all and the rest are largely ignored so there is no culture of genuine consensus building and agreement reaching. Instead it seems to rely more on having majority in the parliament and forcing through your own will.
          It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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          • It is worth remembering that the entire Brexit process, for all it's faults, for all the lies and scaremongering and nationalism and Jingoism and bigotry and racism as well as all the legitimate concerns voices, is a triumph of democracy within the UK. It is, in historical terms, a relatively recent thing that matters of this divisive nature are settled without bloodshed. It is therefore noteworthy that the culture of democracy is sufficiently deep-rooted in the UK to withstand Brexit without anyone really considering any alternative method of resolution.

            That is the triumph of Western democracy and it is a rare thing in this world today, let alone historically.
            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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            • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
              It is worth remembering that the entire Brexit process, for all it's faults, for all the lies and scaremongering and nationalism and Jingoism and bigotry and racism as well as all the legitimate concerns voices, is a triumph of democracy within the UK. It is, in historical terms, a relatively recent thing that matters of this divisive nature are settled without bloodshed. It is therefore noteworthy that the culture of democracy is sufficiently deep-rooted in the UK to withstand Brexit without anyone really considering any alternative method of resolution.

              That is the triumph of Western democracy and it is a rare thing in this world today, let alone historically.
              The problem is that our pathetic PM (makes Lord North look good) is trying to deny democracy...
              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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              • Originally posted by Metryll View Post

                Will of British government, not an EU decision.
                I was not denying that. The PMs at the times of the various Treaties were all very loyal to the EU and were fearful of the no vote. Hence no referendums.
                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                • MPs have siezed control and taken the decisions away from May

                  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47701591

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                  • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                    Back in the day I used to participate in a different forum (now defunct) where a most well-read and affable Frenchman also posted. According to this gentleman, France usually holds elections on Sundays, and French voters tend to show up at the polls after lunch -- after they've polished off a few gallons of wine. Consequently, they often voted for stupid stuff -- like Jean-Marie Le Pen's FN party -- at least in the preliminary round. Then, a week or so later, for the final run-off, they sober up and vote for a real party. One has to wonder if some share of British voters behaved similarly, voting for Brexit as a goof, but never thinking seriously on the subject, perhaps due to traditional British inebriation.
                    Out of the mouths of babes...…

                    Not inebriation, but a large part of the, "Leave," vote was an attempt to knock the self-satisfied smirk off Cameron's face. He subsequently had it away on his toes, prompting Jonathan Pye to point out, "Everyone who f*ck*d up has f*ck*d off, and the only people in that building talking any sense," waves at parliament, "Are the Scottish, who DON'T WANT TO BE THERE !"
                    Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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                    • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                      Thats the sort of stupid, jingoistic, mindless, antagonist, offensive nonsense that rational people in the UK, Ireland and the mainland find so difficult to engage with. It’s like something from General Melchett, Stephen Fry’s character in the last series of Blackadder.
                      Are you a fan of Rudyard Kipling’s more bigoted works?
                      If you are correct, your response kind of mirrors his. One just antagonises the other.

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                      • Something to cogitate on...

                        llTgFRh.jpg

                        The long toll of the brave
                        Is not lost in darkness
                        Over the fruitful earth
                        And athwart the seas
                        Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                        Unquenchable forever.

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                        • Does John Mann have a majority in the House ?

                          If not we really don't care any longer
                          High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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                          • Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
                            Something to cogitate on...

                            llTgFRh.jpg
                            The question is why it happens.
                            I suspect it is because UK citizens consume more health services in those countries on the mainland than their citizens consume in the UK.
                            If that is the case then there's no problem. If not then the reasons are worth examining. Either way the statistics on their own are meaningless. It is typical of the hyperbolic nonsense trotted out by pro-Brexit politicians.
                            Last edited by E.D. Morel; 27 Mar 19, 04:43.
                            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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                            • Theresa May has reportedly told MP's that she will step down before the next phase of Brexit negotiations.
                              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                              Comment


                              • Yeah, well, whatever. Lets take a look at the big picture.

                                The Germans pay most, the UK second best (or worst, depending on whatever you prefer).
                                Net contrib Euros by R. Bezoen, on Flickr

                                And as defined per head of the population (% of gross national income).
                                Guess what. The UK is only ninth contributor per head. Bummer.
                                It's not as much a burden for the people as is always claimed to be.
                                Net contrib of GNI by R. Bezoen, on Flickr
                                "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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