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  • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
    Despite all this EU propaganda the ordinary people resolutely voted against foreign domination and in favour of independence.
    Now we just want to leave despite the desperate efforts of Quislings to keep us in.
    Thats the sort of stupid, jingoistic, mindless, antagonist, offensive nonsense that rational people in the UK, Ireland and the mainland find so difficult to engage with. It’s like something from General Melchett, Stephen Fry’s character in the last series of Blackadder.
    Are you a fan of Rudyard Kipling’s more bigoted works?

    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
      There are three theories about May.

      1. She is just incompetent and weak and that is the reason she agreed the horrendous WDA and for the chais in Parliament.

      2. She is an EU stooge and wants to force a situation whereby we will either never leave or only leave in name only for a brief period then rejoin.

      3. She is incredibly devious and has been aiming for a WTO exit from the start but realised that if she openly campaigned for it it would be blocked. Thus by agreeing an unacceptable deal she forces a WTO exit.
      Either that or :

      4) she simply lacks a majority in parliament.

      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

      Comment


      • 5. British simply don't know what they want. Anglo-Saxon world is going down.
        There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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        • So how do you imagine things will progress from here? There are only few days time to decide on this any more. And the EU is extremely unlikely to chance its stance.

          The EU has made it clear that a short extension - i.e. one which would allow the UK to avoid participating to the EU Parliament elections - requires the UK to agree to a deal. Which is reasonable since such a requirement would at least on face value reduce the risk of the UK needing even more time. Since there are no more negotiations this would mean May's deal. So do you find that likely? Then again if i understood correctly the speaker of HoC has forbidden May from bringing out the same vote again - but of course HoC can override the speaker with majority or by weaseling via proroguing option.

          On the other hand the EU has not ruled out a long extension either but that would likely carry its own burdens as well - likely either (or both) a UK general election or new Brexit referendum. And would in all likelihood still require the UK to take part to the EU elections. Of course the UK has not requested this but it remains as a possibility. All of those would require acceptance from the UK HoC as well. Is that possible?

          Then there is the option of not agreeing to anything and crashing out of the EU. Regardless of the UK HoC ruling out the no-deal like they did it still remains a default result unless something is agreed. It seems that most people regard this as the worst of all results for all sides.

          Finally - there is the option of revoking the letter starting the article 50 process altogether. Not terribly popular with the UK HoC but it seems to be the most popular option among the UK voters according to the polls that have come out. The safest bet would be to do that only via the second referendum but that is not explicitly required for it.

          The fact remains however that the UK contribution to the EU has been very small in comparison to its own annual budget. So leaving the EU won't really give much anything more for the UK as odd as that might sound. UK's problems are of domestic make and will also require a fully domestic solution for them. For example it ain't the EU which has caused the massive income inequality into the UK - but instead the past UK governments themselves. That is whole another mess for the people living in the UK to resolve - the Brexit won't help on that. It might even hinder it.
          It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

          Comment


          • .Actually recent opinion polls indicate that more people would prefer the UK to leave with no deal than go with May’s deal. You should remember that what you see on the media is a very one sided view of Brexit. Again the views of the ordinary people, particularly outside of London, are very different from media types and the elite. Remember back to the referendum itself. The media and the great and the good all thought that Remain would win easily, yet they lost.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
              Again the views of the ordinary people, particularly outside of London, are very different from media types and the elite.
              Again - why does this not translate into parliamentary majorities then ?

              You elect your "elite" don't you ?

              High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                .Actually recent opinion polls indicate that more people would prefer the UK to leave with no deal than go with May’s deal. You should remember that what you see on the media is a very one sided view of Brexit. Again the views of the ordinary people, particularly outside of London, are very different from media types and the elite. Remember back to the referendum itself. The media and the great and the good all thought that Remain would win easily, yet they lost.
                I do not dispute the idea that ordinary people might be more willing to leave on no-deal than on May's deal regardless of the cost to themselves - which would be considerable. However at least those polls which i have seen have indicated that remaining is more popular than either of 'no-deal' or 'May's deal'. No-deal however is the one which will hurt the most.
                It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                  .Actually recent opinion polls indicate that more people would prefer the UK to leave with no deal than go with May’s deal. You should remember that what you see on the media is a very one sided view of Brexit. Again the views of the ordinary people, particularly outside of London, are very different from media types and the elite. Remember back to the referendum itself. The media and the great and the good all thought that Remain would win easily, yet they lost.
                  That was also because Britain leaving the EU makes little actual sense.

                  People tend to assume that unreasonable things will not be selected in politics. Usually they're not. But sometime entire societies end up in situations where what's reasonable can just go hang. The UK is now an example of this.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                    That was also because Britain leaving the EU makes little actual sense.

                    People tend to assume that unreasonable things will not be selected in politics. Usually they're not. But sometime entire societies end up in situations where what's reasonable can just go hang. The UK is now an example of this.
                    Back in the day I used to participate in a different forum (now defunct) where a most well-read and affable Frenchman also posted. According to this gentleman, France usually holds elections on Sundays, and French voters tend to show up at the polls after lunch -- after they've polished off a few gallons of wine. Consequently, they often voted for stupid stuff -- like Jean-Marie Le Pen's FN party -- at least in the preliminary round. Then, a week or so later, for the final run-off, they sober up and vote for a real party. One has to wonder if some share of British voters behaved similarly, voting for Brexit as a goof, but never thinking seriously on the subject, perhaps due to traditional British inebriation.
                    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                      the ordinary people resolutely voted against foreign domination .
                      Yeah. Resolutely. Like 51.9% vs 48.1%.

                      "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                        .Actually recent opinion polls indicate that more people would prefer the UK to leave with no deal than go with May’s deal. You should remember that what you see on the media is a very one sided view of Brexit. Again the views of the ordinary people, particularly outside of London, are very different from media types and the elite. Remember back to the referendum itself. The media and the great and the good all thought that Remain would win easily, yet they lost.
                        Yeah. They won. Like 51.9% vs 48.1%.

                        Oh, and actually recent opinion polls indicate that more people would prefer the UK to remain than to leave.
                        "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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                        • Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                          Yeah. Resolutely. Like 51.9% vs 48.1%.
                          We live in a democracy. 50% plus one is enough.
                          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                            We live in a democracy. 50% plus one is enough.
                            "There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.
                            ...
                            In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

                            https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...endum-36306681

                            A Remain win need a second referedum.
                            A Leave win does not need a second referendum.

                            Some call this democracy, most use the word hypocrisy instead.

                            Blonk...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                              That was also because Britain leaving the EU makes little actual sense.

                              People tend to assume that unreasonable things will not be selected in politics. Usually they're not. But sometime entire societies end up in situations where what's reasonable can just go hang. The UK is now an example of this.
                              The vote may have been driven in part by there being no UK referenda on the various treaties. Many of the European countries had votes on the various treaties, Britain did not.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                              Comment


                              • One test on the likelyhoid of a wto exit is how panicky the Irish get. From the reaction of the Irish poster Wto is now looking very likely.
                                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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