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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    An agreed upon tribunal to settle trade disputes though…..

    https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp190052en.pdf

    As regards the compatibility of the mechanism for the settlement of disputes with the right of access to an independent tribunal, the Court finds that the agreement seeks to ensure that the CETA Tribunal is accessible to any Canadian enterprise and any Canadian natural person that invests within the EU and to any enterprise and any natural person of a Member State of the EU that invests in Canada.
    AND indeed, "level playing field" provisions…

    http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_154331.pdf

    CETA will create a more level playing field between Canada and the EU on intellectual property rights. For example, it will improve how Canada’s IPR system protects patents for EU pharmaceutical products.
    Canada agreeing to protect 145 geographical indications for high quality European products, such as Roquefort cheese, balsamic vinegar from Modena or Dutch Gouda cheese and many others.
    Last edited by Snowygerry; 25 Feb 20, 07:56.

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Metryll View Post

    /Facepalm. EU is answering to Johnson demands towards access to EU single market, not the other way around. EU position has been made clear for the last 3 years : no free acces to single market without cost.
    What UK demands? Beyond that an agreement is reached by 31st December 2020

    Every country in the world has access to the EU single market

    Many countries also have reciprocal tariff free arrangements with the EU.
    None of which allow "EU supervision on so-called level playing field issues"

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  • Sparlingo
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    leaving the EU doesn't relieve the UK of the obligations towards Canada, or indeed other 3rd parties - I think ??

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/ceta...deal-1.4776365
    It does. However, If Canada and UK want to continue CETA arrangements between them, which they do, all that is required is a letter be exchanged between the two of them that states that they intend to keep honouring the provisions of CETA as if the UK was still part of the CETA deal. What that ctv article is saying is that CETA for now between UK and Canada but deeper later.

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  • Metryll
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post

    Eh? The EU is demanding a lot. Regulatory alignment and EU supervision of 'level playing field' rules, the Greeks want the Elgin Marbles, the French want to continue fishing our seas, the Spanish want Gibraltar. It has become a veritable EU shopping list of demands.
    I expect the Germans will demand an apology for the bombing of Dresden next
    /Facepalm. EU is answering to Johnson demands towards access to EU single market, not the other way around. EU position has been made clear for the last 3 years : no free acces to single market without cost. That this point is under discussion is only due to Johnson belief that UK can impose its will over decision made for years by 27 sovereign states. Current situation look new only for those who were too stupid to understand EU position for 3 years...

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  • Vaeltaja
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    At a time when there was plenty of flexibility on the UKs 'red lines' - owing to Theresa May having no majority in Parliament. The EU were trying to be too clever, and thinking a Canadian type deal would never be acceptable to the UK (therefore pick an earlier option)
    Since the EU started preparations for the no-deal quite early on that is not a plausible explanation. The EU made it clear from the start that it was up to the UK to determine which level of future cooperation they would like to get - but also that the UK would not be deciding the rules on that.
    Only when the UK showed signs of taking that option seriously did the EU begin furiously backpedalling.
    No, they haven't since such an option has not been offered. Or rather it has not been offered without additional terms and conditions. Besides the EU still aims for reason a deal. It just won't be the deal the UK wants.
    Just shows how stupid the EU is. The Canadian style deal is excellent for the EU - another gift from the UK to the continent - and the EU is well on course to throw that away
    What makes you imagine that it would be 'excellent' for the EU? Allowing the UK to undermine the EU? There is a reason for requiring the LPF guarantees. Without those it has a potential of becoming a poison pill. In this sense the no-deal is far better for the EU than such a deal.

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
    Because those were not made impossible by the UK's red lines. Which is still true. However you should not expect the offered terms and conditions being the same - that is not stated, guaranteed or promised anywhere. If you imaged they were you were deluded.
    At a time when there was plenty of flexibility on the UKs 'red lines' - owing to Theresa May having no majority in Parliament. The EU were trying to be too clever, and thinking a Canadian type deal would never be acceptable to the UK (therefore pick an earlier option)

    Only when the UK showed signs of taking that option seriously did the EU begin furiously backpedalling.


    What you are expecting is a carbon copy - preferably with a cherry on top - that however is not marked anywhere on the document.
    Just shows how stupid the EU is. The Canadian style deal is excellent for the EU - another gift from the UK to the continent - and the EU is well on course to throw that away

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  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post

    Yes it does, of course it does. The EU created the graphic.

    Their problem is, in creating that graphic they bungled. They didn't actually think the UK would take that 'offer' up.
    So now they are backtracking


    And can rely on the usual credulous Eurotrolls to spout the papal infallibility line.
    Side note to that:
    Did you know that Anglicans are still, by formal titles, also "Catholics of the Anglican Rite:?
    sorry- had an English monment, everoone...

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  • Vaeltaja
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    It seems most of the EU is in fact objecting to it
    That depends on the terms and conditions attached.
    Never heard of Copy and Paste?
    Not going to happen. That would not be accepted. It doesn't matter what the EU thinks on that issue - several of the member states have already made it clear that for CETA style association they require LPF guarantees. And there is nothing the EU can do about that even if it wanted to. It is enough that a single EU member states objects (or in some case just a part of member state objects - see for example Belgium).

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  • Vaeltaja
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    There's a farking great big green tick next to the flags of Canada and South Korea.
    Because those were not made impossible by the UK's red lines. Which is still true. However you should not expect the offered terms and conditions being the same - that is not stated, guaranteed or promised anywhere. If you imaged they were you were deluded. What you are expecting is a carbon copy - preferably with a cherry on top - that however is not marked anywhere on the document.
    You're lying to yourself if you insist that does not mean a relationship like theirs was on offer.
    It was marked as existing in a direct contrast to several of the other options which were as impossible. That is not the same that it would have been offered as is or with similar terms and conditions as which were in CETA.
    Also, note that red line of Regulatory autonomy. Apparently the EU thinks it can 'offer' a Canadian style deal but without Regulatory Autonomy
    There still was no offer anywhere. Furthermore what CETA does or does not require is not really relevant. Reason being quite obviously this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade. Which is obvious to any one remotely familiar with international trade. Also there was nothing stating that the EU would not be able to set the conditions and terms for reaching such an agreement as it saw fit.

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    Never heard of Copy and Paste?
    See my edit above, you have already signed it, leaving the EU doesn't relieve the UK of the obligations towards Canada, or indeed other 3rd parties - I think ??

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/ceta...deal-1.4776365

    "Our preference would be to lock in the terms of trade that are currently accorded by CETA into a U.K.-Canada agreement and then to begin to tweak those provisions so they make more sense for that U.K.-Canada relationship in the medium and long-term," Barr said.

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    Honestly - I doubt anyone would object to a Canada style agreement with the UK, if one can be found.
    It seems most of the EU is in fact objecting to it

    But CETA is 1600 pages or so, took years to work out, anyone who thinks this can be done before 31/12/20 is dreaming imho.
    Never heard of Copy and Paste?

    I expect the very most the EU will get will be a very short technical delay to cross the eyes and dot the tees.

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
    The EU did create it. To demonstrate the effects of the UK's red lines. And it is very clear in its purpose. The problem only occurs when some people try to claim that it would 'offer' anything.
    There's a farking great big green tick next to the flags of Canada and South Korea.

    You're lying to yourself if you insist that does not mean a relationship like theirs was on offer.

    Also, note that red line of Regulatory autonomy. Apparently the EU thinks it can 'offer' a Canadian style deal but without Regulatory Autonomy

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  • Vaeltaja
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    Yes it does, of course it does. The EU created the graphic.
    The EU did create it. To demonstrate the effects of the UK's red lines. And it is very clear in its purpose. The problem only occurs when some people try to claim that it would 'offer' anything.
    Their problem is, in creating that graphic they bungled. They didn't actually think the UK would take that 'offer' up.
    So now they are backtracking.
    No. The graphic is great for its purpose. As said the problem only occurs when some one tries to read more from than what it actually represents. There were no offers in that. It was only showing what the UK's own red line marked as impossible. It did not offer or promise anything - it did not mark conditions nor did it promise that the UK could achieve deals with similar conditions as what other countries had. That belief into something that had actually never been offered or promised is exactly what i referred to with delusions by the British.

    Don't get me wrong though - the UK can still aim for CETA style agreement. But you should not delude yourself into believing that the conditions and terms would be the same or better than the ones offered to Canada. They may be, then again they may not. And most likely not. It depends on if the UK can be seen as being trustworthy and not trying to undermine the EU. Trying to find loopholes in the existing agreements like Boris is doing is rather counterproductive.

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Honestly - I doubt anyone would object to a Canada style agreement with the UK, if one can be found.

    But CETA is 1600 pages or so, took years to work out, anyone who thinks this can be done before 31/12/20 is dreaming imho.

    Edit :

    http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_152806.pdf

    Also - the UK is already a signatory of CETA, on the EU side, don't know what the implications of THAT are exactly in regard to Brexit

    Presumably there's any number of agreements the UK will have to break, or abide by ??
    Last edited by Snowygerry; 24 Feb 20, 08:13.

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  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    The UK is easy to co-operate with. The problems are all going to lie with EU.

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