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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    Since there are likely to be significant price hikes because of tariffs on EU meat and dairy, I predict UK consumers will start eating more of the lovely fish that dwell in our seas.

    Good for our health too!
    "Let them eat fish !"

    Now THAT would have been a campaign slogan to remember

    Leave a comment:


  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
    There are many problems with taking back the 'fish' (though i doubt the fish respect the borders) story. Even without the negotiations that is. Perhaps the largest one is that the UK itself chose to convert UK's fishing quota shares into commodities which the fishermen then promptly sold on.
    You still believe in the fairytale that EU fishermen have bought ownership of the UKs seas!

    Blocking the French fishermen from fishing resulted in the French fishermen blocking the French ports for the UK fishermen.
    Meh. A small disruption whilst other ports and/or markets for British fish are found.


    And since the UK does not really eat the type of fish they can catch but instead prefer to sell those and buy different kinds of fish for consumption that is a bit of a problem as well.
    [/quote]

    Since there are likely to be significant price hikes because of tariffs on EU meat and dairy, I predict UK consumers will start eating more of the lovely fish that dwell in our seas.
    Good for our health too!

    Leave a comment:


  • Vaeltaja
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    I'd rather eat American chicken than let you lot continue to steal our fish.
    There are many problems with taking back the 'fish' (though i doubt the fish respect the borders) story. Even without the negotiations that is. Perhaps the largest one is that the UK itself chose to convert UK's fishing quota shares into commodities which the fishermen then promptly sold on. These shares are equivalent to property at the moment - so taking them over would be rather detrimental for the UK reputation. I suppose the UK government could try buying back those shares but then again, the UK itself wanted it to be a commodity so it is going to be seller's market. That is what the UK wanted after all. So that is what you got.

    Then... The UK also has multitude of agreements with other countries granted them access to the UK fisheries from the past. These are equivalent to international agreements so again breaching them might not be the best of ideas. Then we get to the historical and traditional rights part which is less formalized but still for example UNCLOS (art. 70) grants certain rights for countries which are 'geographically disadvantaged' so it is somewhat difficult to say.

    What the UK will get control of (in case of no deals) is of the total quota. However that will not help much the UK fishermen if the quota shares legally belong to foreign companies.



    Now then... When we get past the actually legal side of fishing (which i doubt will be resolved any time soon) we get to the part which the Channel Islands found to their dismay earlier. Blocking the French fishermen from fishing resulted in the French fishermen blocking the French ports for the UK fishermen. And since the UK does not really eat the type of fish they can catch but instead prefer to sell those and buy different kinds of fish for consumption that is a bit of a problem as well. Not the least because the only way for the fish to get premium price requires it to be sold fresh (essentially by landing the fish to a mainland EU port). And should the fishing rights go, then that will be gone too. Which means fish will yield less and fishermen will make even less than what they are making now.

    So while i appreciate the UK concern on fishing and the UK fishermen the main problem for the UK fishermen has not been the EU but the policies of the UK itself. No other EU country made those quota shares into a trade-able commodity for example.

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  • Metryll
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post

    What UK demands? Beyond that an agreement is reached by 31st December 2020

    Every country in the world has access to the EU single market

    Many countries also have reciprocal tariff free arrangements with the EU.
    None of which allow "EU supervision on so-called level playing field issues"
    Learn :

    "The European single market

    ...

    Standardisation


    Standards are voluntary technical specifications that apply to various products, materials, services and processes. They can help reduce costs, improve safety, enhance competition and facilitate the acceptance of innovations. Learn about the Joint Initiative on Standardisation, standardisation policy, harmonised standards, service standards, the notification system, standardisation requests and key guidance in the standardisation section.
    Barriers to trade


    The Commission works to remove or reduce barriers to intra-EU trade and prevent the creation of new ones so enterprises can trade freely in the EU and beyond. It applies Treaty rules prohibiting quantitative restrictions on imports and exports (Articles 34 to 36 TFEU ) and manages the notification procedures on technical regulations (2015/1535) and technical barriers to trade.
    CE marking


    The Commission introduced the CE mark to indicate that a product meets high safety, health and environmental protection requirements and can be sold throughout the European Economic Area. See the guides for manufacturers, and importers and distributors, and read about CE marking in your country in the CE marking section."


    https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market_en

    Leave a comment:


  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post


    I'd rather eat American chicken than let you lot continue to steal our fish.

    Leave a comment:


  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post


    I'd rather eat American chicken than let you lot continue to steal our fish.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    Another 46 pages ? Give me a week or so...

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/medi...1re03-en20.pdf

    Instead of fish it's chicken now apparently - your press is really something

    I'd rather eat American chicken than let you lot continue to steal our fish.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
    Part of the problem for the current impasse seems to be that at least some in the UK view the EU as some sort of entity that force its will over the member states…..
    Well that was the basic premise of Brexit and all the propaganda that supported it, really should be no surprise at all that some actually believe it.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Vaeltaja
    replied
    Part of the problem for the current impasse seems to be that at least some in the UK view the EU as some sort of entity that force its will over the member states. That is not the case. Especially not with the trade agreements. In a sense the UK is not negotiations need to take into account far more than just what the EU itself if stating - they need to take into account every single member state, all of whom have their own red lines, requirements, needs, and veto right. So trying to 'meet at halfway' is not particularly easily achievable on the EU side because if that 'halfway' compromises interests of even a single member state then that 'halfway' can not be reached.

    Likely the reason why the EU seems to prefer to offer a variety of options for the other party to choose from rather than the usual haggling. Since that latter route is simply not realistic. And why the usual means of trade coercion are unlikely to work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Another 46 pages ? Give me a week or so...

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/medi...1re03-en20.pdf

    V. AUTHENTIC LANGUAGES
    168. The envisaged partnership, which should be equally authentic in all official languages of the Union, should include a language clause to that effect.
    Instead of fish it's chicken now apparently - your press is really something

    At the weekend, George Eustice, the new UK environment secretary, refused to guarantee that the government would not allow the importation of chlorine-washed chicken as part of a trade deal with the US.
    This is a bit strange too :

    In an interview with Sky News’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday, Eustice also signalled that ministers might expand a scheme allowing farmers to hire low-paid foreign workers to harvest crops for 2021.
    Last edited by Snowygerry; 25 Feb 20, 09:18.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    What happens Thursday ?
    When the negotiating mandates are published … I thought. The EU has published theirs just now

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...h-uk-live-news


    WTO rules it is then!

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    Remember, its the EU that will not permit a UK-EU trade agreement like this.
    So it appears anyway, we'll know more by Thursday
    Well they have negotiated CETA they can negotiate another, that's why we pay them after all...

    What happens Thursday ?

    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    The prime minister gave a speech (….)
    Hmm - what "Boris" says, is not always the same as what he does, so his history shows...

    His speech was probably just a "thought exercise"
    Last edited by Snowygerry; 25 Feb 20, 08:01.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

    But it's not a relationship of equals. After the UK leaves the EU's GDP is 6 times that of the UK.
    There's the problem. The EU doesn't want a relationship of equals? GFY.


    The UK's political declaration on the future political relationship gave a
    Commitment to an "ambitious" trading relationship "on the basis of a free trade agreement", with mention of deep regulatory and customs co-operation and a level playing field for fair competition.
    Really?

    Anyway, the UK position: "The UK’s written statement on the future relationship rejects the need for strong legal commitments on the level playing field, and the UK does not want to agree to measures which go beyond a typical trade agreement. It wishes to avoid EU law being the basis of establishing common standards and does not want to be subject to the jurisdiction of EU institutions.

    The prime minister gave a speech following the publication of the EU’s draft mandate setting out further arguments for why the UK does not see the need for such obligations. He makes the case that the UK has higher standards than EU member states and the reason for this is not due to EU law. For example, the prime minister pointed out that the EU has enforced state aid rules against the UK only four times in the last 21 years, compared with 29 enforcement actions against France, 45 against Italy and 67 against Germany.


    "Are the two sides positions irreconcilable?


    It is possible to see how a deal on the level playing field could be struck if one or both sides moderated their demands. The UK government could agree to stronger level playing field provisions beyond what is agreed in normal free trade agreements without accepting the oversight of EU institutions. The EU may be persuaded that the UK’s domestic enforcement will be sufficient to maintain fair competition.

    The most difficult issue is likely to be state aid. The EU will want the UK to dynamically align with EU rules and could expect the UK Competition and Markets Authority to defer to the Commission on its state aid decisions."

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-playing-field

    Leave a comment:


  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    Originally posted by Gooner View Post


    Remember, its the EU that will not permit a UK-EU trade agreement like this. The EU wants control not a relationship of equals, in which case GFY.

    So it appears anyway, we'll know more by Thursday
    But it's not a relationship of equals. After the UK leaves the EU's GDP is 6 times that of the UK.
    The EU has to protect its own interests, just as the UK has to protect theirs. That's what the negotiation is about.
    The UK's political declaration on the future political relationship gave a
    Commitment to an "ambitious" trading relationship "on the basis of a free trade agreement", with mention of deep regulatory and customs co-operation and a level playing field for fair competition.

    Now the UK is reneging on that commitment. Who is being dishonest here?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gooner
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    An agreed upon tribunal to settle trade disputes though…..

    https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp190052en.pdf

    AND indeed, "level playing field" provisions…

    http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_154331.pdf

    Remember, its the EU that will not permit a UK-EU trade agreement like this. The EU wants control not a relationship of equals, in which case GFY.

    So it appears anyway, we'll know more by Thursday

    Leave a comment:

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