Originally posted by Vaeltaja
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I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison
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Originally posted by E.D. Morel View PostThe country, the State, the political entity, is called Ireland or, if speaking in Irish, Éire. It is not the Republic of Ireland, Dublin, the republic of Éire.
Originally posted by E.D. Morel View PostSix of the nine counties of Ulster are part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is worth noting that the most Northerly county on the Island of Ireland is Donegal. Donegal is in Ulster but not part of the province of Northern Ireland. The majority of the people in Ulster do not want to be part of the UK but the majority of the people in the province of Northern Ireland do want to be part of the UK.
Originally posted by E.D. Morel View PostIn short none of it is simple so, in all agreements between the two countries "Ireland" refers to the country and "Northern Ireland" refers to the province which is part of the UK. That was part of the background agreement made at the time of the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985 and has continued since. It also minimises any offence, deliberate or otherwise, which may occur.I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison
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Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
Are you trying to have your cake and eat it too? How does one say "Republic of Ireland" in Irish/Gaelic? "Dublin" would refer to the Irish government, the way "DC" refers to the US Federal government, the way "Albany" refers to the NYS government, the way "City Hall" refers to the NYC gov't, the way that Westminster refers to the UK's parliament, the way that Whitehall refers to the UK's governmental administrative apparatus, the way that Hollywood refers to the film industry in Southern California. That I would have laid good money that you'd already have known, but I guess I was wrong. . . .
I'm offering no statement on my view of the issue. To be frank, I think that there are points of validity from both sides, as well as points of shame. What I'm trying to determine here is if "Éire" signifies the Irish Republic in as few keystrokes as possible.
"Korea" is a peninsula. The political entities are North Korea and South Korea, or DPRK and RoK. "The Carolinas" are a geographic region; the political entities are North Carolina and South Carolina, or NC and SC. My question is, if "Ulster" signifies the six counties of Northern Ireland still in union with the United Kingdom -- an acknowledged political entity -- then what shorthand device signifies the Republic of Ireland? Would "Éire" so suffice?
Personally I have always used Ireland, Éire, Republic of Ireland and Southern Ireland interchangeably. They all mean the same thing and the first three are all in official use in one way or another by the Irish state.
At the end end of the day people should be a lot less touchy about these things."To be free is better than to be unfree - always."
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Originally posted by slick_miester View Postthen what shorthand device signifies the Republic of Ireland? Would "Éire" so suffice?
If you are referring to the 6 counties of Ulster which form the provence of Northern Ireland then you use the term "Northern Ireland".
If you are referring to Ireland and Northern Ireland collectively then you use the term "The island of Ireland".
Last edited by E.D. Morel; 05 Feb 19, 03:35."The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
"Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me
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Originally posted by Surrey View Post
Thinking about it Éire refers to the whole island of Ireland so if anyone is going to be offended by its use to describe the nation state of Ireland then it would be the Ulster Protestants loyal to the UK. Using the term Éire or Ireland could be construed as making a claim on the whole island.
Ireland was Ireland before it was partitioned by the British. They don't get to take our name as well.
Originally posted by Surrey View PostPersonally I have always used Ireland, Éire, Republic of Ireland and Southern Ireland interchangeably. They all mean the same thing and the first three are all in official use in one way or another by the Irish state.
At the end end of the day people should be a lot less touchy about these things.Last edited by E.D. Morel; 05 Feb 19, 03:32."The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
"Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me
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Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
Ireland was Ireland before it was partitioned by the British. They don't get to take our name as well.
"Southern Ireland" is really offensive. I wwouldn't use that term here unless you wanted to start a fight.
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Originally posted by Gooner View Post
Ireland was never a country before the British.
Originally posted by Gooner View PostThe island was partitioned by the Irish and British. Westminster would have been more than happy for all Ireland to get Home Rule but the Nationalists preferred a hard exit,
Originally posted by Gooner View PostIn the North they refer to the Republic as "down Sout'"Last edited by E.D. Morel; 05 Feb 19, 09:05."The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
"Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me
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Originally posted by Vaeltaja View PostNot really. He is not a commissioner. Main point of complaint seems to be that he makes the composition of Commission civil service too German. Yet the fact is that the Commission can force him out. And hence - in a sense - can the EU Parliament. I really don't care if he German or not as long as he does his job.
Juncker’s former chief of staff was promoted to the post of secretary-general of the European Commission last February, seizing a position considered to be one of the most influential in Brussels."
https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-...s-resignation/
Apparently Selmayr is now the most powerful man in the EU and the EU Parliament cannot get rid of him. Haha.
You mean the rules which guarantee MFN and hence force there to be border checks?
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Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
It was a kingdom with a high king and sub-kings. It wasn't a country in the modern sense because those entities didn't exist when the English invaded. It always had a collective identity, a unified standard legal system (the high king was subject to the law of the land in Ireland a thousand years before the English king signed the Magna Carta) , and the Irish people always wanted to be free. The people who were planted here obviously wanted to maintain their minority rule and the puppet Irish Parliament they put in place reflected the views of that small planter minority who could vote in it.
Very primitive law and political organisation compared to what the Anglo-Normans brought along.
They do indeed, and they call Catholics "Fenians" and call black people "niggers" and homosexual people "queers" and everyone who looks like they are from India and Pakistan "pakies".[/QUOTE]
Nah, Fenians and Huns all seem to call it "down sout'"
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Originally posted by Gooner View PostWestminster would have been more than happy for all Ireland to get Home Rule but the Nationalists preferred a hard exit,
Ulster will fight -- and Ulster will be right! - Randolph Churchill
Along with Winnie's dad, on the eve of WW1, one of the RN's leading flag officers, Adm Charles Beresford, threatened mass mutiny among the British armed forces' Ulstermen if Asquith's Liberal government passed a Home Rule bill. If Irish nationalists preferred a hard exit, then quite clearly Unionists preferred no kind of Irish autonomy whatsoever, and they were willing to make their point with armed force.I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison
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Originally posted by Gooner View PostApparently Selmayr is now the most powerful man in the EU and the EU Parliament cannot get rid of him. Haha.
Not MFN but yes, Article 24 and you are going to really have to get your head round the fact that there won't be border checks in Ireland. So you're be best just taking what will be on offer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfk0FSa9MR4 - GATT article 24 for dummies
EDIT: Or this: https://youtu.be/sRlQ6x1V96U?t=10 - About GATT article 24, and how it is not unilateral and how just any one of the WTO member states (like say, Russia) would be able to block it even in the remote case that both the UK and the EU wanted it. And how it doesn't even apply in the case of Brexit due to the requirements of the article 24.Last edited by Vaeltaja; 05 Feb 19, 13:21.It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
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Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
It’s the name of my country in Irish. We are conversing in English. The reason it is offensive in the context of a political discussion is because of the refusal by Northern Irish Unionists and British people to acknowledge that this is Ireland, not Eire, not the Republic of Ireland, just Ireland. It is a hangover from the British colonial past when we were a British colony, planted by British loyalists and ruled by a puppet Parliament set up and elected by those Planters. When we got our freedom the Tory establishment wouldn’t even acknowledge or use the name of our country.
In all treaties between the UK and Ireland we are referred to by our correct name and collective we are referred to as “these islands” and not the politically loaded term “British Isles”.
Its just good nanners, like not calling black peoples darkies or coons or niggers.
Article 4 of the Irish constitution adopted in 1937 by the government under Éamon de Valera states that Éire is the name of the state, or in the English language, Ireland.[4] The Constitution's English-language preamble also described the population as "We, the people of Éire". Despite the fact that Article 8 designated Irish as the "national" and "first official" language, Éire has to some extent passed out of everyday conversation and literature, and the state is referred to as Ireland or its equivalent in all other languages. The name "Éire" has been used on Irish postage stamps since 1922;[5] on all Irish coinage (including Irish euro coins); and together with "Ireland" on passports and other official state documents issued since 1937. "Éire" is used on the Seal of the President of Ireland.
Initially after independence the United Kingdom insisted on using only the name "Eire" and refused to accept the name "Ireland". It adopted the Eire (Confirmation of Agreements) Act 1938 putting in law that position. At the 1948 Summer Olympics in London the organisers insisted that the Irish team march under the banner "Eire" notwithstanding that every other team was marching according to what their name was in English.[6] The UK Government used what some Irish politicians stated were "sneering titles such as Eirish".[7] The UK Government would refer to "Eire Ministers" and the "Eireann Army" and generally avoid all reference to "Ireland" in connection with the state. The Ireland Act 1949 changed this to "Republic of Ireland". It was not until after the 1998 Good Friday Agreement that the UK government accepted the preferred name of simply "Ireland", at the same time as Ireland dropped its territorial claim over Northern Ireland.
Before the 1937 Constitution, "Saorstát Éireann" (the Irish name of the Irish Free State) was generally used.[8]
Wikipedia
Can't find it now, but I recall the running correspondence between two Irish republicans who both earned distinction in the US Civil War: Patrick Cleburne, Maj Gen CSA -- and Thomas Francis Meagher, Brig Gen USA. Meagher wrote to Cleburne wishing for a quick conclusion to the US Civil War, so that they'd both then be freed to drive the British from Ireland -- to whit Cleburne responded that he'd seen enough of war to last him the rest of his life. One needn't wonder too hard which officer the political windbags who'd make a stink over "Ireland vs Éire" resemble.I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison
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Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
Point of fact:
Ulster will fight -- and Ulster will be right! - Randolph Churchill
Along with Winnie's dad, on the eve of WW1, one of the RN's leading flag officers, Adm Charles Beresford, threatened mass mutiny among the British armed forces' Ulstermen if Asquith's Liberal government passed a Home Rule bill. If Irish nationalists preferred a hard exit, then quite clearly Unionists preferred no kind of Irish autonomy whatsoever, and they were willing to make their point with armed force.
Quite probably a 'soft' exit of the whole of Ireland was impossible,
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