Brexit

[Gooner]

Thankfully, the way things are developing is all entirely the fault of "the others".

And one should be aware that the WaPo is a Soros-funded Deep State supported MSM outlet, which means that the opposite of what they write is the actual truth. Unless it fits one's particular case at hand, in which case they have for once spoken the truth.

Well to be fair, it was a pretty childish article and I thought the Washington Post was supposed to be the most prestigious of US papers

Also I would have expected American readers to be quite interested in how much of the $450 billion annual exports from the EU to the UK, the United States might be grabbing in future - hopefully a lot!

[Gooner]

Only real fault in my opinion is the lack of ability to sack individual commissars, and i also would prefer that there would be meritocratic procedure for selecting commissars without 1 per member state rule. But the EU can not change that without member states agreeing. Other than that it works exactly like any other parliament casting the vote of no confidence.

Uh, huh. Has the EU Parliament ever held a vote of no confidence yet?

As an example of the democratic deficit at the heart of the EU there is the curious case of Martin Selmayr https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/...ng-power-grab/

Ask the Irish (not DUP) about it. You will find out that they are not contradictory.

If you support the Good Friday Agreement you have to support both sides. Northern Ireland wishes to remain part of the UK and therefore not the EU.

Wrong. Nothing in it is any kind of an inducement for a favorable deal. It is however a prerequisite for a deal at all.

The UK saw it as an inducement.

The UK is free to provide functional alternative solutions for the Irish border. In fact it has been requested to so for i think 18 months now but has provided exactly nothing concrete and applicable in the real world. The problem is that with the UK's own red lines and the GFA there really is no room to maneuver. This is the deal UK's own limitations (i.e. red lines) have resulted to. If you do not consider it 'friendly' then you need to reconsider UK's own red lines.

Varadkar and Merkel now appear to be in disagreement as to alternative solutions.

Asking for things beyond those the EU listed as the limits. I'm not sure if you haggle from things in the UK or not but those were not open for such. They were the limits.

Hopeless to ask you for a concrete example of such I am sure.

If and only if the UK gives up of its red lines and takes part both to the SM and the CU (while paying the fees for it) while accepting the ECJ. Otherwise, no. The EU Commissions says no, the EU member states say no, the EU parliament says no. Any one who suggests otherwise is not truly connected to the real world.

The World Trade Organisation says the EU and the UK can continue to trade exactly like before whilst a deal is negotiated.

If the EU Commission and Merkel decides not too, I doubt any of the member states or the European parliament will have any say in the matter.

[E.D. Morel]

Ireland is a geographical feature - an island, the second largest in the British Isles - and a Rugby team. In the island of Ireland there are two states, Northern Ireland and the other one.
It is presumptuous and provocative for the Republic of Ireland to call itself just Ireland. Like the US calling itself the United States of North America.
And people wonder why the Unionists have such a siege mentality.
https://www.google.com/search?client...CLsezk#imgrc=_


s-l300.jpg

Excellent.

[E.D. Morel]

How can calling Ireland Éire be offensive? It is the name of the state according to your own constitution. What is the difference between calling Ireland Éire and for example calling Italy Italia? It’s on your own coins and stamps!

The constitution is in Irish and English.
The wording which covers the name of the country is; "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."
If you are conversing in Irish then the name is Éire. If you are conversing in English then it's Ireland.

I've explained why calling it Éire when conversing in English is politically loaded and causes offense. You can of course choose to ignore that but it doesn't change it and I don't know any Irish person who doesn't find it annoying/irksome/offensive.
While you and I disagree on many things I do like reading your posts as they are generally informative and interesting in that they show a different perspective. It's not that big a deal if you won't refer to my country by the correct name, this is only the internet after all, but it is a little disappointing.


The Exorcist can continue to call it anything he likes as his ill-informed and half-baked opinions mean nothing to me.

[Vaeltaja]

Uh, huh. Has the EU Parliament ever held a vote of no confidence yet?

Almost - they threatened to which lead to EU Commission resigning before the vote. In 1999 one of the EU Parliaments members stated of the Commission that "They either go tonight with honour or they are forced out tomorrow without honour" and the EU Commission resigned in that evening.

If you support the Good Friday Agreement you have to support both sides. Northern Ireland wishes to remain part of the UK and therefore not the EU.

I think you misunderstood. The backstop is there to ensure the GFA is supported. Any one advocating against the backstop is advocating against upholding the GFA - unless they can provide other concrete and applicable solutions instead. The UK failed to provide any and the current referrals to 'technology' or 'digital technology' might just as well read 'magic' since they have nothing behind them. EU's deputy Brexit negotiator, Sabine Weyand, pretty much stated that it might be possible to have a technological solution but that it would take years to develop and apply such technologies (that do not even exist at the time). That is why the backstop is needed for the GFA.

The UK saw it as an inducement.

It was not.

Varadkar and Merkel now appear to be in disagreement as to alternative solutions.

That is highly doubtful. You should read other media than the one clamoring for Brexit.

Hopeless to ask you for a concrete example of such I am sure.

Having both open border and hard border in the UK demands simultaneously? You do remember how the UK wants to have its own custom & tariff policy and be excluded from the single market while still maintaining access to those markets and keep the land border on the island of Ireland open.

The World Trade Organisation says the EU and the UK can continue to trade exactly like before whilst a deal is negotiated.

If the EU Commission and Merkel decides not too, I doubt any of the member states or the European parliament will have any say in the matter.

Sure it can. That is where the backstop comes in. But it can not happen if there is divergence in regulations or in customs & tariffs. Those require checks at the border. And you really should give up your delusions with regards to Merkel. She can not decide anything with regards to the Brexit - in the EU no single member state ever can regardless how powerful they would be. Yet even the smallest one can stop such plans as yours which would certainly require unanimity. And you would be surprised how important the preservation of the EU Single Market and the Customs Union is seen.

[Gooner]

Almost

Great, anything to say Martin Selmayr?

I think you misunderstood. The backstop is there to ensure the GFA is supported.

"the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland's status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people;"

The UK failed to provide any and the current referrals to 'technology' or 'digital technology' might just as well read 'magic' since they have nothing behind them. EU's deputy Brexit negotiator, Sabine Weyand, pretty much stated that it might be possible to have a technological solution but that it would take years to develop and apply such technologies (that do not even exist at the time).

Again http://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinkt...TA(2018)604946


Can Smart Border 2.1 be the answer to the Irish border challenge?

Yes, I am one hundred percent convinced that this model can solve the border issue not only on the island of Ireland, but also for the huge amounts of goods that passes every hour the English Channel through the Eurotunnel or via the ferries from Dover to Calais.
<>
Some people claim that the technical and technology solution I have presented does not exist anywhere in the world. This is not true. All parts and components exists in operations.

UK needs one operational model that can be applied in a systematic and simple way for maximum facilitation and optimal security of the borders. This is important both for EU and UK, for both Government agencies and for traders.

The Smart Border provides that solution.

https://www.larskarlsson.com/?p=5298

That is highly doubtful. You should read other media than the one clamoring for Brexit.

"
“There are definitely options for preserving the integrity of the single market even when Northern Ireland isn’t part of it because it is part of Britain while at the same time meeting the desire to have, if possible, no border controls,” she said."

“Of course we will listen to the prime minister and the suggestions she will put forward, but my concern is when they talk about alternative arrangements, they are talking about revisiting things that have already been rejected and that is not going to work," he said."

Having both open border and hard border in the UK demands simultaneously?

Nope.

Sure it can. That is where the backstop comes in.

Nope, WTO rules.

But it can not happen if there is divergence in regulations or in customs & tariffs.

Sure it can. So long as one party doesn't abuse the understanding by wrong exports or re-exports.

[slick_miester]

The constitution is in Irish and English.
The wording which covers the name of the country is; "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."

- emphasis mine

The Irish constitution refers to Éire as a geographical feature, or as the sovereign political entity, ie the Republic of Éire, in the Irish language, of course? And is Ulster called "Northern Éire" by Irish officialdom?

[E.D. Morel]

- emphasis mine

The Irish constitution refers to Éire as a geographical feature, or as the sovereign political entity, ie the Republic of Éire, in the Irish language, of course? And is Ulster called "Northern Éire" by Irish officialdom?

I take it you are just winding me up at this stage?

[E.D. Morel]

If the "Smart Border" solution is so easy then why does the UK oppose the Backstop?

[slick_miester]

I take it you are just winding me up at this stage?

Not at all. You've insisted that I be precise. I'm just trying to figure out what Éire is precisely: an island, or a nation-state. If Éire is a nation-state, then my previous use of Éire to mean Republic of Ireland was technically correct, in any language. If, on the other hand, Éire connotes the whole of the Irish landmass, then what is the appropriate shorthand designation of those six northern counties still in union with the UK?

If it's precision upon which you insist, however, then you have no right to feign indignation when you're asked questions meant to aid in compliance with your request.

[Vaeltaja]

Great, anything to say Martin Selmayr?

Not really. He is not a commissioner. Main point of complaint seems to be that he makes the composition of Commission civil service too German. Yet the fact is that the Commission can force him out. And hence - in a sense - can the EU Parliament. I really don't care if he German or not as long as he does his job.

"the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland's status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people;"

And? That doesn't change the fact that UK's own Brexit decision is bringing this change regardless. Perhaps UK ought to have consulted to the N.I. (instead of just DUP) before making their decision if that is really what you believe in.

Can Smart Border 2.1 be the answer to the Irish border challenge?

In the future, maybe. As the things currently stand, no. And there doesn't exist any kind of guarantees that it would work by the time the transition period would end. So you can hope that it would but we can pledge that it would. Hence the backstop. In essence the 'Smart Border 2.1' and the like are just potential solutions which may or may not work (the author of the documents believes so that but is not guarantee of anything) - and they would also need to be fully established and functioning by the time the transition period ends. Can you guarantee that (the author quite clearly can't)?

Nope.

Yet the problem is that without resorting to magic (since those vaunted 'technological solutions' are still elusive) that is what you are asking for. Two contradictory things. The reason for the backstop is to allow time for the magic to become reality - but the EU can not take the UK's hope that they would be so as any kind of a guarantee.

Nope, WTO rules.

You mean the rules which guarantee MFN and hence force there to be border checks? If you are reading into the negotiation period stuff then you really ought to stop. It won't apply. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...rade-deal-myth && https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/31/...ronews-answers && https://uktradeforum.net/2019/01/26/...a-red-herring/ You are putting all your faith on some strange myths.

Sure it can. So long as one party doesn't abuse the understanding by wrong exports or re-exports.

So you mean immediately when no one smuggles anything any longer ever again? You might need to wait awhile for that. Just few years back the UK tried to cheat with Chinese imports - https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-w...na-fraud-bill/ . Why would the EU trust the UK on this? It has already tried to cheat even before the Brexit.

[Vaeltaja]

If the "Smart Border" solution is so easy then why does the UK oppose the Backstop?

This is very much the issue. If it really is as simple as what Gooner and certain others believe why are so dead set opposing the backstop which would never even take place if anything Gooner and certain others posted were true. It is a nice paradox though.

[m kenny]

If the "Smart Border" solution is so easy then why does the UK oppose the Backstop?

On an informal political show last week a senior arch-Brexiter (Esther McVey)was a guest and her opponent (all such shows must be balanced) was talking about the backstop. He gave reasons why he thought it was academic anyway. It was just being used as an excuse to derail any agreement. He claimed even if it was sorted out then the Leavers would then default to the next of their 'red lines' and fight to the death for that. In short the Leavers are never going to agree to anything other than a total destruction of all links to The EU. Esther blustered and obfuscated but tellingly at no time did she answer his question or deny the plan was to keep finding ways to crash out of The EU.

[Vaeltaja]

Not at all. You've insisted that I be precise. I'm just trying to figure out what Éire is precisely: an island, or a nation-state. If Éire is a nation-state, then my previous use of Éire to mean Republic of Ireland was technically correct, in any language. If, on the other hand, Éire connotes the whole of the Irish landmass, then what is the appropriate shorthand designation of those six northern counties still in union with the UK?

If it's precision upon which you insist, however, then you have no right to feign indignation when you're asked questions meant to aid in compliance with your request.

Just to be clear i would consider it to be strange if some one started referring to 'Finland' as 'Suomi' or to 'Sweden' as 'Sverige' on English language discussions (but of course i will reserve the right to call it 'Svärje' )

[E.D. Morel]

Not at all. You've insisted that I be precise. I'm just trying to figure out what Éire is precisely: an island, or a nation-state. If Éire is a nation-state, then my previous use of Éire to mean Republic of Ireland was technically correct, in any language. If, on the other hand, Éire connotes the whole of the Irish landmass, then what is the appropriate shorthand designation of those six northern counties still in union with the UK?

If it's precision upon which you insist, however, then you have no right to feign indignation when you're asked questions meant to aid in compliance with your request.

The country, the State, the political entity, is called Ireland or, if speaking in Irish, Éire. It is not the Republic of Ireland, Dublin, the republic of Éire.
Six of the nine counties of Ulster are part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is worth noting that the most Northerly county on the Island of Ireland is Donegal. Donegal is in Ulster but not part of the province of Northern Ireland. The majority of the people in Ulster do not want to be part of the UK but the majority of the people in the province of Northern Ireland do want to be part of the UK.
In short none of it is simple so, in all agreements between the two countries "Ireland" refers to the country and "Northern Ireland" refers to the province which is part of the UK. That was part of the background agreement made at the time of the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985 and has continued since. It also minimises any offence, deliberate or otherwise, which may occur.