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  • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    You're saying that from 1922 to 1999, the Irish Republic's constitution advanced "26+6=1" as an overt goal of Irish national policy -- and then as part of the Good Friday Agreement Eire amended her constitution to forego political unification of the whole of Ireland under a republican government? Am I understanding that correctly?
    Other than the country being called "Ireland" and not "Eire" yes, you are correct.
    In Irish the country is called Éire. The fada over the "e" changes the name from "ear-ie" to "Air-a". It is never correct to use the word Eire.
    When conversing in english it is Ireland, not Éire, just as it would be Germany and not Deutschland.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

    Comment


    • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

      Other than the country being called "Ireland" and not "Eire" yes, you are correct.
      In Irish the country is called Éire. The fada over the "e" changes the name from "ear-ie" to "Air-a". It is never correct to use the word Eire.
      When conversing in english it is Ireland, not Éire, just as it would be Germany and not Deutschland.
      Maybe I should have said Dublin in that line, or Hibernia.

      Back to policy for a moment, how did the ambition of unity express itself in Irish policy before 1999? Did Dublin ever support Sinn Fein, the IRA, or the PIRA directly, with funding, arms, training, personnel? Or was Dublin's support for unity restricted to the rhetorical only? To the best of my knowledge -- which is admittedly very limited -- Dublin never got involved with PIRA.
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

        Maybe I should have said Dublin in that line, or Hibernia.
        Ireland would have done just fine.

        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        Back to policy for a moment, how did the ambition of unity express itself in Irish policy before 1999? Did Dublin ever support Sinn Fein, the IRA, or the PIRA directly, with funding, arms, training, personnel? Or was Dublin's support for unity restricted to the rhetorical only? To the best of my knowledge -- which is admittedly very limited -- Dublin never got involved with PIRA.
        The IRA considered the Irish State and the Irish Government to be their enemy and considered Irish Police and Armed Forces members to be legitimate targets in their "war".
        That doesn't mean there was no collusion between some members of those bodies and the PIRA but the Irish Government and the Irish State never supported them. The PIRA is a banned terrorist organisation in this country and always was. Just being a member will get you a prison sentence.
        So, in short, Dublin, and the rest of the Ireland's support for unity was restricted to rhetoric only.
        In the 90 or so years of independence we have seen the gap between the free Irish and the nationalists in Northern Ireland waden as those in the North become poorer, have lower live expectancies, have worse educational outcomes, have higher levels of crime, lower standards of housing etc. It could be argued that we betrayed them in order to get our freedom but we can't be trapped by history and the GFA and most British Governments since the 1980's have worked to reduce the level of social and economic oppression they lived under. The DUP is now seeking to wind that clock back and the Brexiteers are helping them.
        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

        Comment


        • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
          Ireland would have done just fine.
          Not necessarily. I was trying to differentiate between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, which are two distinct political units, using the fewest number of keystrokes possible (Eire vs Ulster) -- and I suspect that you already knew that.

          Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
          The IRA considered the Irish State and the Irish Government to be their enemy and considered Irish Police and Armed Forces members to be legitimate targets in their "war".
          That doesn't mean there was no collusion between some members of those bodies and the PIRA but the Irish Government and the Irish State never supported them. The PIRA is a banned terrorist organisation in this country and always was. Just being a member will get you a prison sentence.
          So, in short, Dublin, and the rest of the Ireland's support for unity was restricted to rhetoric only.
          I'm honestly not all that knowledgeable about that facet of Irish politics and history, so thanks for the edification. My impression was that PIRA received way more assistance from Irish-American parties than they did from parties within Eire, or from Dublin. Your dope would seem to confirm my impression. Did the same apply to the earlier incarnations of the republican movement, Sinn Fein and the original IRA, ie were they shunned by Dublin?

          Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
          In the 90 or so years of independence we have seen the gap between the free Irish and the nationalists in Northern Ireland waden as those in the North become poorer, have lower live expectancies, have worse educational outcomes, have higher levels of crime, lower standards of housing etc. It could be argued that we betrayed them in order to get our freedom but we can't be trapped by history and the GFA and most British Governments since the 1980's have worked to reduce the level of social and economic oppression they lived under. The DUP is now seeking to wind that clock back and the Brexiteers are helping them.
          How much did "Free Irishmen's" (never heard it put that way before) relationship with their Ulster counterparts change after 1922, after 1939, after 1969?
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • Worth a read: Washington Post: The collective madness behind Britain’s latest Brexit plan

            In case it is pay walled... Reddit link with text: r/Brexit: Washington Post Analysis: Fairy Tale Politics
            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

            Comment


            • Thankfully, the way things are developing is all entirely the fault of "the others".

              And one should be aware that the WaPo is a Soros-funded Deep State supported MSM outlet, which means that the opposite of what they write is the actual truth. Unless it fits one's particular case at hand, in which case they have for once spoken the truth.
              "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rutger View Post
                Thankfully, the way things are developing is all entirely the fault of "the others".

                And one should be aware that the WaPo is a Soros-funded Deep State supported MSM outlet, which means that the opposite of what they write is the actual truth. Unless it fits one's particular case at hand, in which case they have for once spoken the truth.
                And that's rank conspiracy theory. It's an indication of how far into the alt-right BS this board is sliding.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                  Not necessarily. I was trying to differentiate between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, which are two distinct political units, using the fewest number of keystrokes possible (Eire vs Ulster) -- and I suspect that you already knew that.



                  I'm honestly not all that knowledgeable about that facet of Irish politics and history, so thanks for the edification. My impression was that PIRA received way more assistance from Irish-American parties than they did from parties within Eire, or from Dublin. Your dope would seem to confirm my impression. Did the same apply to the earlier incarnations of the republican movement, Sinn Fein and the original IRA, ie were they shunned by Dublin?



                  How much did "Free Irishmen's" (never heard it put that way before) relationship with their Ulster counterparts change after 1922, after 1939, after 1969?
                  Call Ireland Eire is offensive. You didn’t know any better but now you do. Please stop doing it.

                  The IRA which fought the war of independence and was later susumbed into the national army was a completely different thing to the PIRA. The “old” IRA which was in Northern Ireland post 1922 was sidelined in the late 60’s because they didn’t take armed action to stop Loyalist Paramilitaries, actively supported by Loyalist militias and the RUC, from ethnically cleansing areas of Belfast. That involved kicking in doors, dragging men women and children into the streets and burning down their houses with everything they owned still inside.
                  it was that, as much as anything else, which lead to the rise of the PIRA.
                  Bloody Sunday, when the Parachute Regiment shots load of unarmed man woman and children, and the coverup by the British Establishment was the biggest recruitment push they ever got.
                  when the British government started to treat the Nationalist as somewhat equal and curb the bigoted extremists who ran Northern Ireland things started to improve and the PIRA lost considerable support. Margaret Thatcher deserves considerable credit for taking on the Unionist extremists and the British Army also deserve credit for being somewhat impartial, relative to the RUC and Unionist establishment.
                  Teresa May in the only British Prime Minister in living memory who would stoop so low as to get into bed with a bunch of fundamentalist, bigoted extremists as the Ulster Unionists.


                  "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                  validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                  "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                    Call Ireland Eire is offensive. You didn’t know any better but now you do. Please stop doing it.

                    The IRA which fought the war of independence and was later susumbed into the national army was a completely different thing to the PIRA. The “old” IRA which was in Northern Ireland post 1922 was sidelined in the late 60’s because they didn’t take armed action to stop Loyalist Paramilitaries, actively supported by Loyalist militias and the RUC, from ethnically cleansing areas of Belfast. That involved kicking in doors, dragging men women and children into the streets and burning down their houses with everything they owned still inside.
                    it was that, as much as anything else, which lead to the rise of the PIRA.
                    Bloody Sunday, when the Parachute Regiment shots load of unarmed man woman and children, and the coverup by the British Establishment was the biggest recruitment push they ever got.
                    when the British government started to treat the Nationalist as somewhat equal and curb the bigoted extremists who ran Northern Ireland things started to improve and the PIRA lost considerable support. Margaret Thatcher deserves considerable credit for taking on the Unionist extremists and the British Army also deserve credit for being somewhat impartial, relative to the RUC and Unionist establishment.
                    Teresa May in the only British Prime Minister in living memory who would stoop so low as to get into bed with a bunch of fundamentalist, bigoted extremists as the Ulster Unionists.

                    How can calling Ireland Éire be offensive? It is the name of the state according to your own constitution. What is the difference between calling Ireland Éire and for example calling Italy Italia? It’s on your own coins and stamps!
                    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                      How can calling Ireland Éire be offensive? It is the name of the state according to your own constitution. What is the difference between calling Ireland Éire and for example calling Italy Italia? It’s on your own coins and stamps!
                      It’s the name of my country in Irish. We are conversing in English. The reason it is offensive in the context of a political discussion is because of the refusal by Northern Irish Unionists and British people to acknowledge that this is Ireland, not Eire, not the Republic of Ireland, just Ireland. It is a hangover from the British colonial past when we were a British colony, planted by British loyalists and ruled by a puppet Parliament set up and elected by those Planters. When we got our freedom the Tory establishment wouldn’t even acknowledge or use the name of our country.

                      In all treaties between the UK and Ireland we are referred to by our correct name and collective we are referred to as “these islands” and not the politically loaded term “British Isles”.

                      Its just good nanners, like not calling black peoples darkies or coons or niggers.
                      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                        How can calling Ireland Éire be offensive?--
                        Never respond to the Offended.

                        Next week, somebody else will be offended that you didn't call it Eire ... especially when they don't want to deal with the points of your argument.

                        I blow them all off. I am not responsible for the sum total of human knowledge, nor am I responsible for other people's misconceptions, feigned or otherwise.
                        "Why is the Rum gone?"

                        -Captain Jack

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post

                          Never respond to the Offended.

                          Next week, somebody else will be offended that you didn't call it Eire ... especially when they don't want to deal with the points of your argument.

                          I blow them all off. I am not responsible for the sum total of human knowledge, nor am I responsible for other people's misconceptions, feigned or otherwise.
                          Given that the word Éire is everywhere in Ireland - stamps, coins, signs etc, he must spend his entire life being triggered.

                          It is interesting however like most who see offence everywhere they don’t hesitate to ‘offend’ others and compare their own imagined slights to genuine real abuse.
                          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                            Just out of curiosity, how has guaranteed basic income fared in Finland?

                            .

                            https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...xperiment-work

                            Comment


                            • There was an extended version of this on the BBC news Channel last night when four participants were featured. One used the opportunity to set up two new business and has taken on employees, one is seeking a promotion at work, one is feeling let down now it has ended and one seems to have got little benefit from it. There was a view that it was a political publicity stunt. The Finnish unions expressed opposition to it.
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                                Given that the word Éire is everywhere in Ireland - stamps, coins, signs etc, he must spend his entire life being triggered.

                                It is interesting however like most who see offence everywhere they don’t hesitate to ‘offend’ others and compare their own imagined slights to genuine real abuse.

                                Ireland is a geographical feature - an island, the second largest in the British Isles - and a Rugby team. In the island of Ireland there are two states, Northern Ireland and the other one.
                                It is presumptuous and provocative for the Republic of Ireland to call itself just Ireland. Like the US calling itself the United States of North America.
                                And people wonder why the Unionists have such a siege mentality.
                                https://www.google.com/search?client...CLsezk#imgrc=_


                                s-l300.jpg


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