Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brexit

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by MarkV View Post

    No as the agreement was about never to implement a hard border and not to do with either staying in or leaving the EU. I guess that the question wasn't even thought about at the time but legally whoever puts up a customs post is breaking it. This means that the RoI may be legally damned if they do and damned if they don't as if they do they break GFA and if they don't they are breaking EU law. The UK on the other hand has no legal obligation to set up posts
    I think great minds than yours or mine will decide the legalities of the matter.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

    Comment


    • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

      I know. I've met one or two.

      - emphasis mine

      Suet pudding. . . . . that alone could have more than justified the American Revolution.



      I'm still having a hard time getting past suet.



      Figgy duff Spotted dick: wasn't that caused by too much shore leave?
      How can you not like Christmas pudding? It’s got dried fruit, suet, beer and brandy in. All healthy stuff.
      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
        A Crossbench Peer... sounds like a breed of dog. He's a neo-con Brexiteer and strong Unionist. Hardly a neutral party.
        Crossbench means that he has no political affiliations. He voted Remain and neo-con is an American thing. I don't know if he's a Unionist let alone a strong one but if you are using that as some sort of pejorative that makes you the bigot.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          Because the UK claimed that it could be done. You are forgetting that the EU wants to keep the Irish border open as well and doesn't like to keep backstop in effect any longer than necessary.
          Why should the UK trust the EU again? It's not as if the EU Commission is properly accountable to anyone ...


          That is very doubtful since the EU position has been formed with the Irish who have been adamant on the matter. Keep in mind that the backstop is not something the EU wants but it is there in case the UK fails to deliver. And now with UK's refusal to accept the backstop it seems the UK has come to realization that it can not deliver what it previously promised (meaning smart border).
          The Irish are only one of the parties to the GFA. By backing only one of their parties involved the EU violates the spirit of the Agreement.

          It is a matter of principle. And given the statements made so far (by various EU officials) it seems very likely that it will be required to be made before any trade agreements are discussed.
          Fair enough, then, as a matter of principle, whatever the UK owes to the EU - if anything - should be put to independent arbitration.

          And? I'm not quite sure how or why that would matter. It is either backstop or no deal. Only things which could change that is if the UK gave up some of their 'red lines' or if the UK could come up with actual tangible, realistic, and actually existing alternative method for the Backstop. Though time is running out for the UK to do either of those things.
          Yep, time is running out and the mood of the nation seems to be turning to feck it.

          Why do I think that if the UK was a member of the EU and some other major country - say France or Italy - were leaving, the UK would be making tremendous noise to reopen negotiations, to get a respectful withdrawal agreement, to get a generous trade deal, to maintain friendly relations with the leaving country?
          But then, the UK has always been out-of-step with the EEC and EU.

          Which is not that much for the EU. The UK market might be fairly important for the EU trade but it is not dominant. However the EU market is central to the UK trade dominating it.
          And therefore the EU Commission can behave like an oriental despot and should have the power to bully as it sees fit.

          We'll see just how unified the EU27 are when the Commission fcuks up the trade agreements

          Comment


          • Americans don't eat Christmas Pudding!

            af82f7c0c118614264af264510de8bca226b7fd5?$editorial_997x425$.jpg

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

              Why do I think that if the UK was a member of the EU and some other major country - say France or Italy - were leaving, the UK would be making tremendous noise to reopen negotiations, to get a respectful withdrawal agreement, to get a generous trade deal, to maintain friendly relations with the leaving country?
              But then, the UK has always been out-of-step with the EEC and EU.
              Given my country’s history of negotiating with the British we have very good reason not to take anything at face value or to leave anything to chance.
              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

              Comment


              • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                Given my country’s history of negotiating with the British we have very good reason not to take anything at face value or to leave anything to chance.
                You have a cheek!

                Irish Constitution 1937-1999

                Article 2
                The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                  You have a cheek!

                  Irish Constitution 1937-1999

                  Article 2
                  The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.
                  That's itself a confirmation of the Irish experience with the UK...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                    Why should the UK trust the EU again? It's not as if the EU Commission is properly accountable to anyone ...
                    Except to the EU Parliament and to the EU member states. First one can force the EU Commission to resign and the second one can stop it from getting anything done.
                    The Irish are only one of the parties to the GFA. By backing only one of their parties involved the EU violates the spirit of the Agreement.
                    The EU trying to uphold the GFA. I'm not really sure how that is a bad thing now. And as to why the EU is backing the ROI - after the Brexit ROI will remain as an EU member state, the UK does not. The EU is simply standing up and supporting one of its own.
                    Fair enough, then, as a matter of principle, whatever the UK owes to the EU - if anything - should be put to independent arbitration.
                    You need to realize that the 39 B£ is already result of arbitration. If it were to go to independent arbitration the whole thing would start over from somewhere near 100 B£ or more - so the the resulting number could easily be much, much higher than the currently agreed sum. Just to remind you.
                    Yep, time is running out and the mood of the nation seems to be turning to feck it.
                    That mostly seems to be because the UK has been so deeply concentrated on its own internal squabbling that it has not given much thought as to how any of their suggestions would work with the EU.
                    Why do I think that if the UK was a member of the EU and some other major country - say France or Italy - were leaving, the UK would be making tremendous noise to reopen negotiations, to get a respectful withdrawal agreement, to get a generous trade deal, to maintain friendly relations with the leaving country?
                    EU would like to have friendly relations with the UK after the Brexit. Problem is that the EU can not grant UK the things the UK is demanding. It simply can not happen. Even the backstop is something the EU never wants to use - but it has to be there to protect the GFA.
                    And therefore the EU Commission can behave like an oriental despot and should have the power to bully as it sees fit.
                    The EU could have bullied the UK should it just have wanted to do so. They haven't. They laid out the limits of what was possible at the start. I'm not quite sure what the UK imagined, those limits are the maximum extent what the EU can give. But the UK kept asking for more.
                    We'll see just how unified the EU27 are when the Commission fcuks up the trade agreements
                    You have no idea how the trade negotiations in the EU work do you? They have to be unanimously agreed by all the member states. What you wrote only shows that you really haven't got the slightest idea as to how the EU works.
                    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                      I think I stepped in that once . . . .
                      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                        That's itself a confirmation of the Irish experience with the UK...
                        What, rebellious?

                        Short precis to keep it OT:
                        "It is vital that the UK not allow the Republic of Ireland’s government to unilaterally escape its obligations under the 1998 Good Friday Agreement. It has done so in the past in relation to international treaties with very negative consequences. In 1925, Dublin recognised Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom in the Tripartite Treaty of that year. But in 1937, the Irish Government repudiated this by making a territorial claim over Northern Ireland in its revised Constitution. Three times during the Troubles, most notably in the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985, the British made massive concessions to secure something that in international law it already possessed. It is time to act now, so that the UK does not spend much of the next century, as it spent much of the last, playing a needless game of catch-up because it failed to insist that the Republic of Ireland should stand by its international treaty obligations."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                          Except to the EU Parliament and to the EU member states. First one can force the EU Commission to resign and the second one can stop it from getting anything done.
                          A veneer of democratic accountability.

                          The EU trying to uphold the GFA. And as to why the EU is backing the ROI
                          Contradictory statements.

                          You need to realize that the 39 B£ is already result of arbitration.
                          Some that we owe, some an inducement for a favourable deal.

                          If it were to go to independent arbitration the whole thing would start over from somewhere near 100 B£ or more - so the the resulting number could easily be much, much higher than the currently agreed sum. Just to remind you.
                          I doubt that. Who did you have in mind as an independent arbitrator, George Soros?


                          EU would like to have friendly relations with the UK after the Brexit. Problem is that the EU can not grant UK the things the UK is demanding. It simply can not happen.
                          What do you imagine that the UK is 'demanding'? By friendly you mean the UK has to sign upto the appalling withdrawal agreement or the EU is entitled to be unfriendly?


                          The EU could have bullied the UK should it just have wanted to do so. They haven't. They laid out the limits of what was possible at the start. I'm not quite sure what the UK imagined, those limits are the maximum extent what the EU can give. But the UK kept asking for more.
                          You mean the EU could have tried to bully the UK even more? Sure they could and it would have been the best thing they could have done to unite this country.
                          Again, what is this 'asking for more' that you imagine?
                          You do realise that the UK and the EU can continue to trade on exactly the same terms as they do now after the UK leaves don't you?
                          Should the EU Commission arbitrarily choose not to, it would be exactly that, a choice. Never mind how the EU chooses to lie behind can't, principles, constitution blablabla.

                          You have no idea how the trade negotiations in the EU work do you? They have to be unanimously agreed by all the member states. What you wrote only shows that you really haven't got the slightest idea as to how the EU works.
                          Yeah, we will see with the EU 27 have any say come the 30th March.
                          If the EU Commission makes a balls of it I expect forthcoming EU27 elections to be fun, beginning with the EU parliamentary elections in May.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                            You have a cheek!

                            Irish Constitution 1937-1999

                            Article 2
                            The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.
                            Let's not get into the lies, threats and bullying by the British during the negotiations in 1922 when Ireland was seeking its freedom from centuries of oppression.
                            We changed our constitution to remove our aspiration to a fully free Ireland as part of the Good Friday Agreement.
                            The same agreement that we are seeking to protect now.
                            The same agreement that the DUP opposed with all it's bile and vigour.
                            The same DUP which is the puppet master pulling the strings of the current Tory government.


                            Tell me again about who is really interested in protecting the Good Friday Agreement?
                            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                              A veneer of democratic accountability.
                              Only real fault in my opinion is the lack of ability to sack individual commissars, and i also would prefer that there would be meritocratic procedure for selecting commissars without 1 per member state rule. But the EU can not change that without member states agreeing. Other than that it works exactly like any other parliament casting the vote of no confidence.
                              Contradictory statements.
                              Ask the Irish (not DUP) about it. You will find out that they are not contradictory.
                              Some that we owe, some an inducement for a favourable deal.
                              Wrong. Nothing in it is any kind of an inducement for a favorable deal. It is however a prerequisite for a deal at all.
                              I doubt that. Who did you have in mind as an independent arbitrator, George Soros?
                              The propaganda you keep listening is starting to seep through.
                              What do you imagine that the UK is 'demanding'? By friendly you mean the UK has to sign upto the appalling withdrawal agreement or the EU is entitled to be unfriendly?
                              The UK is free to provide functional alternative solutions for the Irish border. In fact it has been requested to so for i think 18 months now but has provided exactly nothing concrete and applicable in the real world. The problem is that with the UK's own red lines and the GFA there really is no room to maneuver. This is the deal UK's own limitations (i.e. red lines) have resulted to. If you do not consider it 'friendly' then you need to reconsider UK's own red lines.
                              Again, what is this 'asking for more' that you imagine?
                              Asking for things beyond those the EU listed as the limits. I'm not sure if you haggle from things in the UK or not but those were not open for such. They were the limits.
                              You do realise that the UK and the EU can continue to trade on exactly the same terms as they do now after the UK leaves don't you?
                              If and only if the UK gives up of its red lines and takes part both to the SM and the CU (while paying the fees for it) while accepting the ECJ. Otherwise, no. The EU Commissions says no, the EU member states say no, the EU parliament says no. Any one who suggests otherwise is not truly connected to the real world.
                              If the EU Commission makes a balls of it I expect forthcoming EU27 elections to be fun, beginning with the EU parliamentary elections in May.
                              The problem is that the EU Commission has to abide what the member state want - since if any of them disagree with it then there won't be a deal. That is the reason why the UK can not have a trade deal if it pisses of the ROI - as the Republic of Ireland can block trade deal all by itself if it so chooses (so can Spain if it gets antsy with regards to Gibraltar). So it is not really up just to the EU Commission but also - and especially - to the individual sovereign member states and their governments.
                              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                                Let's not get into the lies, threats and bullying by the British during the negotiations in 1922 when Ireland was seeking its freedom from centuries of oppression.
                                We changed our constitution to remove our aspiration to a fully free Ireland as part of the Good Friday Agreement.
                                The same agreement that we are seeking to protect now.
                                The same agreement that the DUP opposed with all it's bile and vigour.
                                The same DUP which is the puppet master pulling the strings of the current Tory government.


                                Tell me again about who is really interested in protecting the Good Friday Agreement?
                                You're saying that from 1922 to 1999, the Irish Republic's constitution advanced "26+6=1" as an overt goal of Irish national policy -- and then as part of the Good Friday Agreement Eire amended her constitution to forego political unification of the whole of Ireland under a republican government? Am I understanding that correctly?
                                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X