Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brexit

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
    If that's the sort of garbage and lies which passes for analysis in the UK then it's no wonder so many people there are confused and think the EU is hostile and/or adversarial. Although even a cursory level of examination of the facts would so it to be nonsense.
    Don't embarrass yourself. I think he knows more about the subject than any of us: Lord Bew of Donegore is a Crossbench peer, leading historian of Ireland and Professor of Irish Politics at Queen's University.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bew

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
      . . . . If you ask that you really didn't understand the law of Jante.
      Check out this tripe.

      The Law of Jante (Danish: Janteloven)[note 1] is a code of conduct known in Nordic countries, that portrays doing things out of the ordinary, being overtly personally ambitious, or not conforming, as unworthy and inappropriate. . . .

      There are ten rules in the law as defined by Sandemose, all expressive of variations on a single theme and usually referred to as a homogeneous unit: You are not to think you're anyone special or that you're better than us.

      The ten rules state:
      1. You're not to think you are anything special.
      2. You're not to think you are as good as we are.
      3. You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
      4. You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.
      5. You're not to think you know more than we do.
      6. You're not to think you are more important than we are.
      7. You're not to think you are good at anything.
      8. You're not to laugh at us.
      9. You're not to think anyone cares about you.
      10. You're not to think you can teach us anything.

      The Janters who transgress this unwritten 'law' are regarded with suspicion and some hostility, as it goes against the town's communal desire to preserve harmony, social stability and uniformity.

      An eleventh rule recognised in the novel as 'the penal code of Jante' is:
      1. Perhaps you don't think we know a few things about you?

      From the chapter Maybe you don't think I know something about you:
      "That one sentence (the eleventh rule), which acts as the penal code of Jante, as such was rich in content. It was a charge of all sorts of things, and that it also had to be, because absolutely nothing was allowed. It was also an elaborate indictment, with all kinds of unspecified penalties given to be expected. Furthermore it was useful, depending fully on tone of voice, in financial extortion and enticement into criminal acts, and it could also be the best means of defense."
      "Law of Jante," Wikipedia
      Now we know why the Scandinavian countries lead Western Europe in suicide.

      So not only does Jante promote the cultivation of the invisible Gray Man, but also the busybody, the finger-wagger, the critic. The community is the organic whole, and the individual merely a cell: "vaterland über alles." What, pray tell, is the difference between Scandinavian Jante and Mao's Cultural Revolution?



      Those Red Guards were NOT agents of the state: they were usually students, volunteers, doing their bit for the benefit of "the people."



      To dare to win, to risk losing, to try, to endeavor, to achieve. To banish those basic urges is to negate life itself. I never thought of Finland as the domain of the worker drone myself, but clearly you not only see it that way, you relish it.



      You do realize that the vast majority of an ant colony's population -- the workers -- are sterile, don't you?

      Fortunately you don't speak for all Finns, or all Scandinavians. Surely this Junte crap can't be held so high there.

      Can it?
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
        All you need to do is to prove it. If it is that easy (like you repeatedly claim) why is it so complicated for the UK to prove it?
        Where have I claimed it would be easy. Why should the UK go to the expense of creating a smart border if nothing is reciprocated on the other side?

        Assuming the WA is agreed the UK has the whole transition period time to prove and demonstrate how that smart border would work.
        "The Withdrawal Agreement, alas, places key areas of such co-operation entirely under the operation of a new EU-led regime – a regime which begins from day one of the implementation of the Backstop. UK government reassurances about the future miss the point. The damage to the delicate structure of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement would already have been done by the implementation of the Backstop. This is because regulations, previously within the disposal of the parties to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement within Northern Ireland, would be handed to agencies outside their control (see, for example, pages 425-435 of the Withdrawal Agreement).
        The startling effect of this would be that a Good Friday Agreement – created in 1998 to ensure bottom-up consent – would now be replaced by a top-down arrangement. This would not protect the Good Friday Agreement but subvert it."

        The WA is highly unlikely to be approved as is.

        Keep in mind that person who stated the very things you said - Raab about rejecting May's Brexit - is the same person who in public hearing managed to testify that despite of having being the Minister responsible for Brexit he has never read the 35 page long GFA (essentially stating that it was too boring for him, not too 'cracking to read').
        Nobody in the EU appears to have read the GFA either! See above

        The EU wants the UK shoulder its share of the responsibilities. But it seems that 'shouldering responsibility' seems somewhat alien concept for some.
        Because the UK has such a long history of never shouldering its responsibilities

        Don't get me wrong here, the EU would like to have that trade agreement but it is very likely that the divorce payment need to be done before that.
        You've just told me how wealthy the EU 27 are. Do they really need the 'divorce settlement' before a trade agreement?
        Just the EU Commission being arseholes again surely if it is a sticking point.

        I'm not sure what you are smoking. I merely analyzed the options available and the probable consequences there-off. Besides i didn't say the UK could not leave - i said the UK could cause 'a material breach' to the agreement and renege it (assuming i got the terms right - but you should get the message regardless) so there always is a 'way out'.
        There are no good options to get out of the backstop except EU largesse. The Parliament of the United Kingdom gave their verdict.
        If that was all of it, then maybe. But it ain't. It also gives privileged access to the EU for the UK. From the EU point of view: the sooner we can rid off the backstop the better. It gives very little to the EU at the expense of allowing the UK to have access.
        You ever try standup? The EU gets priveliged access to the UK as well.

        Comment


        • A genuine error at the Beeb

          Comment


          • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            So not only does Jante promote the cultivation of the invisible Gray Man, but also the busybody, the finger-wagger, the critic. The community is the organic whole, and the individual merely a cell
            Yet in contrast to your communist nonsense there are several differences. Perhaps closer to egalitarianism? Not quite sure... It has certain common points to left wing side which might explain why Social Democracy has been as popular as it has in the Nordic countries but communism has not been.
            To dare to win, to risk losing, to try, to endeavor, to achieve. To banish those basic urges is to negate life itself. I never thought of Finland as the domain of the worker drone myself, but clearly you not only see it that way, you relish it.
            Then you misunderstood it. The point largely is that any one can succeed but that you should not flaunt your successes. You might sort of understand why by considering the opposite - in case of a flop the society will be there to help you back on your feet without pissing on you either. It is not that it would not be possible to try and succeed.
            Fortunately you don't speak for all Finns, or all Scandinavians. Surely this Junte crap can't be held so high there.

            Can it?
            First, Finns aren't Scandinavians. Fennoscandians could work, but 'Nordic' is preferable. As to Jante (not Junte), I doubt it is held in any regard. Keep in mind that it was originally intended as criticism. But it is still more or less followed to some extent as a cultural norm. The point was that places are not culturally identical and your understanding of US culture does not grant you much (if any) understanding of other cultures.
            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

              Don't embarrass yourself. I think he knows more about the subject than any of us: Lord Bew of Donegore is a Crossbench peer, leading historian of Ireland and Professor of Irish Politics at Queen's University.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bew
              So he knows better but chose to spew that nonsense anyway. Wow.
              A Crossbench Peer... sounds like a breed of dog. He's a neo-con Brexiteer and strong Unionist. Hardly a neutral party.
              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                Where have I claimed it would be easy. Why should the UK go to the expense of creating a smart border if nothing is reciprocated on the other side?
                Because the UK claimed that it could be done. You are forgetting that the EU wants to keep the Irish border open as well and doesn't like to keep backstop in effect any longer than necessary.
                The WA is highly unlikely to be approved as is.
                Very tragic and unfortunate, but then we just have to move on.
                Nobody in the EU appears to have read the GFA either!
                That is very doubtful since the EU position has been formed with the Irish who have been adamant on the matter. Keep in mind that the backstop is not something the EU wants but it is there in case the UK fails to deliver. And now with UK's refusal to accept the backstop it seems the UK has come to realization that it can not deliver what it previously promised (meaning smart border).
                Because the UK has such a long history of never shouldering its responsibilities
                Then why is it so hard to do so now?
                You've just told me how wealthy the EU 27 are. Do they really need the 'divorce settlement' before a trade agreement?
                It is a matter of principle. And given the statements made so far (by various EU officials) it seems very likely that it will be required to be made before any trade agreements are discussed.
                There are no good options to get out of the backstop except EU largesse. The Parliament of the United Kingdom gave their verdict.
                And? I'm not quite sure how or why that would matter. It is either backstop or no deal. Only things which could change that is if the UK gave up some of their 'red lines' or if the UK could come up with actual tangible, realistic, and actually existing alternative method for the Backstop. Though time is running out for the UK to do either of those things.
                The EU gets priveliged access to the UK as well.
                Which is not that much for the EU. The UK market might be fairly important for the EU trade but it is not dominant. However the EU market is central to the UK trade dominating it.
                It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                Comment


                • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                  Good question. I think the fact that the change would be a consequence of the action of the UK would mean they would be seem as the party which changed the agreement and the border would be a result of their action.
                  No as the agreement was about never to implement a hard border and not to do with either staying in or leaving the EU. I guess that the question wasn't even thought about at the time but legally whoever puts up a customs post is breaking it. This means that the RoI may be legally damned if they do and damned if they don't as if they do they break GFA and if they don't they are breaking EU law. The UK on the other hand has no legal obligation to set up posts
                  Last edited by MarkV; 31 Jan 19, 10:55.
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                    Then you misunderstood it. The point largely is that any one can succeed but that you should not flaunt your successes. You might sort of understand why by considering the opposite - in case of a flop the society will be there to help you back on your feet without pissing on you either. It is not that it would not be possible to try and succeed.
                    So I shouldn't state that Saab's and Volvo's were excellent cars? That Pekka Rinne is an outstanding goaltender? That there's much to admire, and emulate, in the Finnish Army's sniper training program?

                    All I can say is that it's a damned good thing that Esa Tikkanen isn't your stereotypical Finn: loud, abrasive, annoying. It must pi$$ you off something awful that he hasn't had to buy himself a drink in the Greater New York area in nearly a quarter of a century.

                    Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                    First, Finns aren't Scandinavians. Fennoscandians could work, but 'Nordic' is preferable.
                    Didn't know that Finnish was a Nordic language. That being said, perhaps you should discuss this with your Scandinavian neighbors.


                    Courtesy of Scadia World Travel, Stig Stenhoj, president
                    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                      Didn't know that Finnish was a Nordic language. That being said, perhaps you should discuss this with your Scandinavian neighbors.
                      Ever sat an Englishman, a Scot, a Welshman and in Irishman down to agree on anything?

                      It's akin to that, except with independent nations.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                        So I shouldn't state that Saab's and Volvo's were excellent cars? That Pekka Rinne is an outstanding goaltender? That there's much to admire, and emulate, in the Finnish Army's sniper training program?
                        You didn't quite understand it. Accomplishing something is fine. Boasting about it however - not.
                        All I can say is that it's a damned good thing that Esa Tikkanen isn't your stereotypical Finn: loud, abrasive, annoying. It must pi$$ you off something awful that he hasn't had to buy himself a drink in the Greater New York area in nearly a quarter of a century.
                        Not really - he doesn't go around showing off with it. Not here. However do not think that he would not be respected for his accomplishments, he is. But the culture works in a very different way.
                        Didn't know that Finnish was a Nordic language. That being said, perhaps you should discuss this with your Scandinavian neighbors.
                        Scandinavia - Denmark, Norway, Sweden
                        Fennoscandia - Finland, Norway, Sweden
                        Nordic countries - Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden

                        Yet despite of that Finnish is not a Nordic language while being a language used in the Nordic countries.
                        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                          Referring to all deserts as "Pudding" is a particularly English thing. I always find it strange.

                          Savory pudding is usually a kind of sausage.
                          Except that we don't, we also have tarts (and jellies,blancmanges, trifles etc). Puddings were usually either boiled or steamed and tarts baked which is why we have steak and kidney pudding, black pudding etc as well as Christmas pudding suet pudding. To confuse matters cooking methods have evolved so that dishes that would once have been steamed in a cloth can now be cooked in a dish in the oven as most households can nowadays afford an oven and oven proof dishes. Some like rice pudding have evolved into milky dishes.

                          The distinction between desert and pudding is a class and/or regional phenomenon, desert (or afters or sweet) for the course at the end of a meal is very much a southern and/or middle class usage whereas pudding is more working class and/or Northern, the distinction may have arisen because until the end of the 19th century very few working class dwellings would have an oven and were limited to making puddings for the last course. However pudding is sometimes used by some aristocrats (usually of the country dwelling type). Some of the Anglo Irish gentry I knew from County Sligo referred to pudding.

                          The sailing ship navy were great supporters of steamed dishes as ovens were not a feature of ship's galleys but did not call them puddings but duff as in figgy duff , a great favourite. Another naval dish that moved ashore was spotted dick.
                          Last edited by MarkV; 31 Jan 19, 11:39.
                          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                            Ever sat an Englishman, a Scot, a Welshman and in Irishman down to agree on anything?
                            Of course they agree. They all agree that they don't like each other.

                            Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                            It's akin to that, except with independent nations.
                            Ahh, the great dysfunctional family of the frozen north . . . . Got it.

                            Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                            You didn't quite understand it. Accomplishing something is fine. Boasting about it however - not.
                            So what are you saying, that there's no advertising in Finland, Finnish politicians don't go out on the hustings to hustle votes, and when they're out there they don't make great show of kissing babies? Do young Finnish men at least put the moves on young Finnish women, 'cause if they don't, you're liable to run out of Finns in just a couple of generations.

                            Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                            Not really - he doesn't go around showing off with it. Not here.
                            Jari Kurri said that he was unable to keep his mouth shut.

                            Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                            However do not think that he would not be respected for his accomplishments, he is. But the culture works in a very different way.
                            How would anyone there know if mention of one's accomplishments is considered verboten?

                            Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                            Scandinavia - Denmark, Norway, Sweden
                            Fennoscandia - Finland, Norway, Sweden
                            Nordic countries - Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden

                            Yet despite of that Finnish is not a Nordic language while being a language used in the Nordic countries.
                            If you're going to use your hand to masturbate, shouldn't you at least be surfing porn?

                            Rimshot
                            Last edited by slick_miester; 31 Jan 19, 13:42.
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                              No as the agreement was about never to implement a hard border and not to do with either staying in or leaving the EU. I guess that the question wasn't even thought about at the time but legally whoever puts up a customs post is breaking it. This means that the RoI may be legally damned if they do and damned if they don't as if they do they break GFA and if they don't they are breaking EU law. The UK on the other hand has no legal obligation to set up posts
                              Which raise the question : how UK intend to regain effective control over its border (as campaigned by Leave) without implementing a hard border ?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                                we also have tarts
                                I know. I've met one or two.

                                Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                                Puddings were usually either boiled or steamed and tarts baked which is why we have steak and kidney pudding, black pudding etc as well as Christmas pudding suet pudding.
                                - emphasis mine

                                Suet pudding. . . . . that alone could have more than justified the American Revolution.

                                Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                                To confuse matters cooking methods have evolved so that dishes that would once have been steamed in a cloth can now be cooked in a dish in the oven as most households can nowadays afford an oven and oven proof dishes. Some like rice pudding have evolved into milky dishes.
                                I'm still having a hard time getting past suet.

                                Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                                The sailing ship navy were great supporters of steamed dishes as ovens were not a feature of ship's galleys but did not call them puddings but duff as in figgy duff , a great favourite. Another naval dish that moved ashore was spotted dick.
                                Figgy duff Spotted dick: wasn't that caused by too much shore leave?
                                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X