Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brexit

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    ^ 1) There are always jobs that can't be outsourced -- at all levels of the income spectrum;

    2) I've come to understand that British young people are rather like American young people -- in that they're lazy and entitled, and tend to choose majors like film and communications over engineering by a good clip. The future is in technology. That's an immutable fact. Our universities market crap products, aka liberal arts: yet another immutable fact. Back in 2011, when the recession was still being felt, the trucking industry was slowed by a shortage of applicants. Same problem exists in agriculture: Americans simply refuse to do that kind of work.

    You'd think that if one graduates from college in the midst of a recession, that one would be well-motivated to take 'most any paying gig available, if for no other reason than to pay down that student debt. So why were such jobs going unfilled during the recession?

    You'll note that my sources are National Public Radio and The Washington Post: not exactly Fox & Friends. Even our left-of-center outlets can't deny it: native-born Americans think themselves too good for certain types of work. I have every confidence that the same applies in the UK, as well.

    There's your "level playing field." I've worked in factories, and I can tell you from personal experience, that no one who has any semblance of a choice wants to work in a factory -- so that anxiety over the loss of manufacturing jobs is simply a canard. Heavy industry left the building four decades ago, and it ain't never coming back. What you're proposing is the abolition of the automobile in favor of the horse, so we can save jobs in the leather goods and saddlery industry. I can't see it getting more idiotic than that.

    By the way, you do realize that you're making a Trumpian argument, don't you?
    THIS seems more of an urgent problem facing us, and the UK is further along that trajectory than the rest of the EU. Also leaving the EU to pursue, possibly, some kind of "Singapore" gambit or the like is unlikely to stem it:
    https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/01/...r-society-view

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
      There are plenty of reasons [why a person doesn't take a truck-driving position] - not every is qualified to do everything.
      Specifically I was talking about driving a truck in that segment. What kind of person would not qualify to drive a truck -- Stevie Wonder?

      Therein you've shot your own argument in the foot: Trump & Co are trying to protect jobs that no one wants. What earthly sense does that make?

      Re factories: I worked in clothing factories while in high school. It's the lowest of the low on the manufacturing scale: hot in the summer, cold in the winter, dangerous cutting tools and trucks present constant hazards, employers who deliberately hire illegals so they can play fast-n-loose with payroll. Who in US or Western Europe would line up for that? Why should public policy go out of its way to protect such jobs?

      Like I said, this is truly a Trumpian argument.
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        Specifically I was talking about driving a truck in that segment. What kind of person would not qualify to drive a truck -- Stevie Wonder?
        Truck drivers need licenses. Firms tend to prefer to hire those who already have one.
        Therein you've shot your own argument in the foot: Trump & Co are trying to protect jobs that no one wants. What earthly sense does that make?
        Difference here is that for example in the UK's case the tariffs would protect jobs that people actually want. What Trump and the lot are doing is quite a bit different.
        Re factories: I worked in clothing factories while in high school. It's the lowest of the low on the manufacturing scale: hot in the summer, cold in the winter, dangerous cutting tools and trucks present constant hazards, employers who deliberately hire illegals so they can play fast-n-loose with payroll. Who in US or Western Europe would line up for that? Why should public policy go out of its way to protect such jobs?
        I did not discuss be protecting such jobs. The issue i tried to point to you is that not every one is qualified to move to 'more advanced' jobs. Which means that the move such as which you trumpeted would result in increasing unemployment with increasing number of people who can not be effectively employed. Which is bad for them and bad for the state as well since it would only lead to spiraling expenses.
        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          Truck drivers need licenses. Firms tend to prefer to hire those who already have one.
          Your reading comprehension skills are wanting: you missed the bit about paid CDL (Commercial Drivers License) training.

          Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          Difference here is that for example in the UK's case the tariffs would protect jobs that people actually want.
          Which ones? Financial services jobs in the City of London? IT in Edinburgh? Biotech? You know -- those jobs for which the UK's education sector fails to prepare her young people? Body fluid moppers at Brummie porn theaters perhaps? Oh, that's right: wankers watch their porn online these days, from the comfort of their own homes....

          Or are they still lining up with lunch boxes waiting for Speke's whistle?

          Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          I did not discuss be protecting such jobs. The issue i tried to point to you is that not every one is qualified to move to 'more advanced' jobs. Which means that the move such as which you trumpeted would result in increasing unemployment with increasing number of people who can not be effectively employed. Which is bad for them and bad for the state as well since it would only lead to spiraling expenses.
          Then what can be done with "those who can't do, those who can't teach, and those who can't teach gym"? Just out of curiosity, how has guaranteed basic income fared in Finland?

          Surely you're no Creationist, and I'm sure that Creation is viewed as rather a quaint joke throughout most of Western Europe. If that's the case, then why isn't Darwin given his head? I never understood that dichotomy. But I'm just an ignorant American, so surely you'll edify me.
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            Your reading comprehension skills are wanting: you missed the bit about paid CDL (Commercial Drivers License) training.
            I was responding in more generic basis than just referring to the article in question. For example here that license can be too costly for people to try to get it - especially since many have opted not to get a driving license at all.
            Which ones? Financial services jobs in the City of London? IT in Edinburgh? Biotech? You know -- those jobs for which the UK's education sector fails to prepare her young people? Body fluid moppers at Brummie porn theaters perhaps? Oh, that's right: wankers watch their porn online these days, from the comfort of their own homes....
            And your nonsense relates to what exactly?
            Then what can be done with "those who can't do, those who can't teach, and those who can't teach gym"? Just out of curiosity, how has guaranteed basic income fared in Finland?
            Here teaching is highly valued and competitive - "those who can't teach, do" would be more in line what is done here. Regardless - it is hard to tell. Initially it was reported that government more or less ruined it by not fully committing to it. But it was allowed to run its course - results should be ready by the summer.
            Surely you're no Creationist, and I'm sure that Creation is viewed as rather a quaint joke throughout most of Western Europe. If that's the case, then why isn't Darwin given his head? I never understood that dichotomy. But I'm just an ignorant American, so surely you'll edify me.
            I seriously have no idea what you are saying. Or intended to say. I guess that is some sort of idiom but i have no idea what it means.
            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
              I was responding in more generic basis than just referring to the article in question. For example here that license can be too costly for people to try to get it - especially since many have opted not to get a driving license at all.
              Again, you're ignoring facts -- rationalizing -- in order to make your point. If Roadway Delivery Services is offering prospective hires $50,000/yr while they're earning their CDL, then what reason is there for refusing their offer of employment?

              Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
              And your nonsense relates to what exactly?
              Which jobs in the UK require protectionism? It's certainly not obvious.

              Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
              Here teaching is highly valued and competitive
              Here it's a joke -- but our largest teachers union does fight tooth and nail to keep NAMBLA members on the payroll.

              Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
              - "those who can't teach, do" would be more in line what is done here.
              So is the "proof in the pudding," so to speak? Are Finns generally well-educated, and amply prepared for the demands of work? Are the products of Finnish workers in high demand, either domestically or abroad, without untoward government help?

              Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
              Regardless - it is hard to tell. Initially it was reported that government more or less ruined it by not fully committing to it. But it was allowed to run its course - results should be ready by the summer.
              What was the official reason thus far for discontinuing the guaranteed basic income program?

              Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
              I seriously have no idea what you are saying. Or intended to say. I guess that is some sort of idiom but i have no idea what it means.
              Even the Bolsheviks maintained that those who do no work should not be entitled to workers' benefits. What would be so wrong with letting natural selection weed out those who refuse to work?
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                Then you should have read the versions for advanced students too since they make it quite clear why the result described is only a short term if it undermines the production of the UK. And would in long term be detrimental to the economy of the UK. Cheap imports would enable you to buy more, sure - but the other side of the coin is that less domestic production means lay-offs, unemployment, and similar which will result in increasing public spending, which results in increasing taxes (or alternatively in increasing public debt) which in turn will result in reduction of your purchasing power. Additionally the UK companies could produce things more cheaply - mainly by means of paying less. Which again will result in decreasing purchasing power (and quite a few other things). Overall result would regardless be rapidly increasing income inequality.
                Admittedly I haven’t read much on Marxist ‘economics’ but I have read quite a bit by real economists.

                Lower prices make increases people’s buying power. Same effect as increasing income. Richer people can spend more on other things boosting the economy further. You then get a virtuous circle that gets better in the long term as the market shifts rescoursces into areas where we have a comparative advantage.
                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                  Again, you're ignoring facts -- rationalizing -- in order to make your point. If Roadway Delivery Services is offering prospective hires $50,000/yr while they're earning their CDL, then what reason is there for refusing their offer of employment?
                  It is rather difficult for me to comment US thing from here. I only pointed out that here things do not work in similar manner.
                  Which jobs in the UK require protectionism? It's certainly not obvious.
                  If you need to ask that then you really didn't understand what was being discussed.
                  So is the "proof in the pudding," so to speak? Are Finns generally well-educated, and amply prepared for the demands of work? Are the products of Finnish workers in high demand, either domestically or abroad, without untoward government help?
                  Again an expression that i have no idea how to decipher. As to the rest... Yes, well-educated. And preparedness really demands on the work in question. As to the last part - it is rather difficult to say without knowing what those ambiguous terms refer to.
                  What was the official reason thus far for discontinuing the guaranteed basic income program?
                  Huh? It was a planned set duration study. The study ended. Now the results are being analyzed.
                  Even the Bolsheviks maintained that those who do no work should not be entitled to workers' benefits. What would be so wrong with letting natural selection weed out those who refuse to work?
                  There not being jobs for every one does not equal with 'refusing to work'.
                  It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                  Comment


                  • Latest from Parliament is that the EU stooges, Grieve, Cooper and Boles have been defeated.
                    Maybe the EU will now start negotiations for real as their henchmen have failed.
                    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                      Admittedly I haven’t read much on Marxist ‘economics’ but I have read quite a bit by real economists.
                      And you for some reason assume that i would have read on Marxist economics? Rather interesting and unfortunately very telling.
                      Lower prices make increases people’s buying power. Same effect as increasing income. Richer people can spend more on other things boosting the economy further. You then get a virtuous circle that gets better in the long term as the market shifts rescoursces into areas where we have a comparative advantage.
                      If and only if the person retains his salary after the prices end up being lower. And even fewer can be employed in a case system goes through such a change. Reality is that not every one will be employed - and in future even less so - so those earning a salary will end up paying steeper taxes to pay for those who aren't working. What you describe is true if people remain employed - if they are not then nothing in it holds true and it only ends up as a downwards spiral. And again your assumption of 'virtuous circle' relies on there being an equal playing field - but in reality that doesn't exist. Take say China or India, both are able to produce high tech goods at costs that are impossible for us.
                      It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                        Latest from Parliament is that the EU stooges, Grieve, Cooper and Boles have been defeated.
                        Maybe the EU will now start negotiations for real as their henchmen have failed.
                        LOL - keep dreaming. Negotiations ended already and it is very unlikely that they would be opened again. Don't take my word for it - take the EU negotiator's:
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNe8qK_-wUI
                        Or Donald Tusk: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...amendment-pass
                        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                          The EU Commission is negotiating in bad faith and contrary to its own treaties!

                          There are plenty of British position on the EU withdrawal, you should educate yourself rather than parroting the party line.
                          Since you are talking of self education, EU Commission does not conduct negotiation...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                            Latest from Parliament is that the EU stooges, Grieve, Cooper and Boles have been defeated.
                            Maybe the EU will now start negotiations for real as their henchmen have failed.
                            EU answer took 10 minutes : No.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                              Latest from Parliament is that the EU stooges, Grieve, Cooper and Boles have been defeated.
                              Maybe the EU will now start negotiations for real as their henchmen have failed.

                              Interestingly there was a second amendment accepted that rules out a "no deal Brexit" as well as the one that mandates May to negotiate "..something else…"..

                              So what happens now ?

                              Please don't tell me May is "coming to Brussels" again

                              Exact text is probably to be found here, I'll look for it later :

                              https://services.parliament.uk/bills...documents.html


                              High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post


                                Interestingly there was a second amendment accepted that rules out a "no deal Brexit" as well as the one that mandates May to negotiate "..something else…"..

                                So what happens now ?

                                Please don't tell me May is "coming to Brussels" again

                                Exact text is probably to be found here, I'll look for it later :

                                https://services.parliament.uk/bills...documents.html

                                The Speilman amendment was just advisory. Not enforceable. Just means that they would like a deal, not that there must be one.
                                The amendments that would have prevented leaving without a deal were rejected as were the ones that would have delayed/stopped Brexit.

                                The Brady amendment, also just advisory, is the one you are referring to about her going back to Brussels to try and get something vaguely acceptable.
                                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X