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  • #31
    Originally posted by Surrey View Post

    Geography is not your strong suit. Closing your airspace in peacetime would be correctly perceived as a deeply hostile act which the UK would be fully justified in responding in kind. The vast majority of flights to Ireland from the east go over the UK. Further the UK administers the airspace to the west of Ireland. You better not get seasick as you are going to have to travel by boat if you want to go anywhere....
    Have you looked at a map of countries air spaces?
    The UK and Ireland have, as things stand, integrated their air space for the purposes of civil air traffic. Flights that currently go through UK airspace would have to go around it. Are you seriously suggesting that airlines would stop travelling to Ireland if they couldn't use UK airspace? I'm sure they would charge more but that's all.

    Again, the issue here isn't Ireland closing it's airspace, it is the fact that the UK hasn't bothered to ensure that they have agreements in place to use other countries air space. This dates back to the 1940's. It shouldn't be news to anyone.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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    • #32
      Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

      Why? UK airspace isn't that big. EU flights can just fly over or under it.

      Under UK airspace! brilliant, well done.


      The point is that this isn't a EU-UK issue; the UK won't have agreements to fly into anyone's airspace anywhere in the world. It's just another issue, along with food and agricultural standards and many others, that the UK hasn't done any preparation work on.

      Actually considering the UK said, yeah we'll stay in EASA and contribute our shillings, this is another issue in which the EU is acting the complete fecking twats.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

        Have you looked at a map of countries air spaces?
        The UK and Ireland have, as things stand, integrated their air space for the purposes of civil air traffic. Flights that currently go through UK airspace would have to go around it. Are you seriously suggesting that airlines would stop travelling to Ireland if they couldn't use UK airspace? I'm sure they would charge more but that's all.
        Actually, UKFIRs2-1.png

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Gooner View Post
          If the EU carries on behaving like arseholes then it would be well worth
          Why exactly do image this would be the case or would have been at any point the case?
          It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Gooner View Post


            Under UK airspace! brilliant, well done.
            You really didn't know what I meant?





            Originally posted by Gooner View Post
            Actually considering the UK said, yeah we'll stay in EASA and contribute our shillings, this is another issue in which the EU is acting the complete fecking twats.
            "We'll stay in" requires them having an agreement. They don't have an agreement at the moment.
            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Gooner View Post

              Actually, UKFIRs2-1.png
              That's not the UK's airspace. That's the airspace currently managed by UK air traffic controllers, known as FIRS (Flight Information Regions)
              The UK's airspace is just around the UK.
              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                Actually, UKFIRs2-1.png
                FIRs are not the same as airspace. UK airspace extends to either on its land borders or to the outer limit of its territorial waters. That being 12 nautical miles from the coast/island/whatever. Additionally UK remains a signatory to IASTA. It seems the main effect would be that both the UK as well as the EU would be able to charge overflight fees. It would likely result in elevated ticket costs especially in the UK and possibly doom for some of the really, really low cost airlines that rely on EU (27+4) - UK travel.
                It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                  FIRs are not the same as airspace. UK airspace extends to either on its land borders or to the outer limit of its territorial waters. That being 12 nautical miles from the coast/island/whatever. Additionally UK remains a signatory to IASTA. It seems the main effect would be that both the UK as well as the EU would be able to charge overflight fees. It would likely result in elevated ticket costs especially in the UK and possibly doom for some of the really, really low cost airlines that rely on EU (27+4) - UK travel.
                  Yep, back to pre-1997 bilateral rules but since the EU is now a Territory as far as IASTA is concerned the UK will certainly have to clarify its position formally, i.e. make an agreement. So far it has not done so.
                  The issue of landing rights within the EU is a bigger problem.

                  "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                  validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                  "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    The options for the UK now seem to be the Brexiteers led by the "F*** Business" Boris Johnson, fundamentalists for the cause despite the economic damage it will do, and the Corbynites with their adolescent pseudo-marxist policies.
                    I feel sorry for the UK.
                    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                      It seems the main effect would be that both the UK as well as the EU would be able to charge overflight fees. It would likely result in elevated ticket costs especially in the UK and possibly doom for some of the really, really low cost airlines that rely on EU (27+4) - UK travel.
                      153 million passengers between EU and UK airports in 2016 I think there are going to be a lot more casualties than "some of the really, really low cost airlines"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                        153 million passengers between EU and UK airports in 2016 I think there are going to be a lot more casualties than "some of the really, really low cost airlines"
                        EasyJet could be screwed but Ryanair should be fine as it is highly profitable and the UK only accounts for 2% of its business. British Airways could also be in trouble.
                        The expectation is that EU-UK traffic will reduce in the coming years anyway as fewer EU citizens work in and visit the UK and vice versa.
                        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                          Ryanair should be fine as it is highly profitable and the UK only accounts for 2% of its business.


                          You're in good form today!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gooner View Post



                            You're in good form today!
                            Indeed.

                            "Dublin-based Ryanair would not be able to fly intra-UK routes without an agreement or a UK operating base. Sorahan said that the airline had not yet decided whether it would try to secure a British air operating licence, and could instead cut its flights within Britain, which only account for around 2 percent of its business."
                            Ryanair , Europe's largest airline by passenger numbers, plans to pivot its growth away from Britain over the next two years as it fears the lack of clarity over Brexit will cause major travel disruption and hit demand.
                            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                              153 million passengers between EU and UK airports in 2016 I think there are going to be a lot more casualties than "some of the really, really low cost airlines"
                              It is doubtful that as far as businesses go that others would suffer all that much. I mean the international agreements do set a ceiling to the costs that can be charged for overflying - of course landing agreements and that stuff are whole another story. So the biggest losers in such an arrangements would be the airlines which practically only work on the low cost basis. On bigger and more highly valued airlines - like BA - the effect ought to be visible only as increased ticket prices. They would probably need to cut back a bit - maybe even a fair bit - but it should not turn them belly up that is what i mean.

                              After all like you said there will still be passengers for that transit. Likely even with the potentially slightly elevated costs.
                              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                May has announced that she will take direct control of the negotiations over Brexit. Thus we can expect the U.K. to want to double the bar bill contribution to 78bn plus increase annual payments to several times what they are now. Insist that the UK is subject to the ECR for ever and demand that we have no say in any future EU legislation that effects us. And all will of course.
                                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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