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  • This farce has been going on long enough. We should just walk away. The £39bn saved will pay for a lot of mitigation.
    In a few years when we have established ourselves outside of the EU we can then negotiate a free trade deal but until then go to WTO with the EU and arrange FTAs with everyone else. But the important thing is we need to get moving and stop continually flogging this dead horse.
    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

    Comment


    • There is no link between the £39 billion and a negotiated deal.
      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

      Comment


      • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
        There is no link between the £39 billion and a negotiated deal.
        We have discussed this before. HMG has not signed off on the £39bn and will not do so until and unless some form of deal is agreed. No deal, no £39bn. A large part of the £39bn was for the transition period anyway. No deal means no transition period.
        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

        Comment


        • The UK can choose not to honour its commitments but it still has nothing to do with a Brexit agreement.
          "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
          validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
          "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

          Comment


          • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
            The UK can choose not to honour its commitments but it still has nothing to do with a Brexit agreement.
            They aren’t our commitments until we agree them. They have no legal standing. If nothing happens between now and the end of March the UK leaves the EU then with no further payments and on a WTO arrangement with the EU.
            It has everything to do with the a Brexit agreement as the UK will not pay a penny until an acceptable one is agreed.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

              They aren't our commitments until we agree them. They have no legal standing. If nothing happens between now and the end of March the UK leaves the EU then with no further payments and on a WTO arrangement with the EU.
              It has everything to do with the a Brexit agreement as the UK will not pay a penny until an acceptable one is agreed.
              The UK has previously made commitments when in the EU. They are now choosing to leave the EU but those commitments remain.
              If I agree to make a staged investment in a business but then leave that business I will still be liable for that investment.
              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

              Comment


              • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                The UK has previously made commitments when in the EU. They are now choosing to leave the EU but those commitments remain.
                If I agree to make a staged investment in a business but then leave that business I will still be liable for that investment.
                All that matters is what is enforceable and I suspect that you will find not much. As the UK has not signed off the £39bn it has not agreed it and will not do so until and unless there is a deal. The £39bn is to get a deal. The UK is not a charity, whatever the EU thinks. At present the UK makes a £10bn net contribution a year to the EU. That is over and above what we get out of it. You have had enough of our money.
                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                  All that matters is what is enforceable and I suspect that you will find not much. As the UK has not signed off the £39bn it has not agreed it and will not do so until and unless there is a deal. The £39bn is to get a deal. The UK is not a charity, whatever the EU thinks. At present the UK makes a £10bn net contribution a year to the EU. That is over and above what we get out of it. You have had enough of our money.
                  Problem with that is that the UK has committed to paying it. Renegading international agreements, especially on financial side, generally does not work towards creating more trust towards the UK fulfilling the future international agreements it makes. Especially ones related to international trade or finances. Or would you give a loan to a person that just publicly defaulted on paying one?
                  It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                    Problem with that is that the UK has committed to paying it. Renegading international agreements, especially on financial side, generally does not work towards creating more trust towards the UK fulfilling the future international agreements it makes. Especially ones related to international trade or finances. Or would you give a loan to a person that just publicly defaulted on paying one?
                    The EU budget works with a long-term framework, but they only become legal obligations when the annual EU budget is approved each year by the member countries. A default only occurs in the case of a legal obligation, not a mere commitment.

                    Commitment in this case means "For long-term planning purposes, I agree that I might make the payment, but I have the right to change my mind until I sign-off on the annual budget."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Aber View Post


                      Commitment in this case means "For long-term planning purposes, I agree that I will make the payment, but I have the right to change my mind until I sign-off on the annual budget."
                      Fixed that for you.

                      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                        All that matters is what is enforceable and I suspect that you will find not much.
                        For some people their word is their bond; when the commit to something they stand by it. For others it's about the letter of the law.

                        Many Irish people, aware of our historical dealings with the British Crown and Government, hold the opinion that the British cannot be trusted. I was of the opinion that this had changed and the UK could and do now act honourably. I will be very disappointed if I am proven wrong.

                        Time will tell.
                        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                          The EU bigwigs are really concerned for the sanctity of the single market - or so they claim.

                          In reality it just gives them a fig leaf to act like the proverbial scorned woman.
                          I think you missed the message been put around by those who are in the know. Far from trying to 'keep' the UK France decided a while back that the negotiations were going nowhere and the best thing was to get the UK out the door as soon as possible. Granted there are others willing to give May a chance but the point is the delusional people claiming the UK is too important to be allowed to walk away are simply wrong. What now all the newspaper stories claiming the likes of Poland will support the UK and not let us walk away empty handed?

                          Comment


                          • Typical 'angry white male' EU hater who demands everyone do what he wants.

                            https://youtu.be/g96iQBwFVXM?t=2m54s

                            Note how he turns around and starts an argument with another man saying 'who's a fool'. They chose not to broadcast the bit where he challenged the man to a fight.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                              For some people their word is their bond; when the commit to something they stand by it. For others it's about the letter of the law.

                              Many Irish people, aware of our historical dealings with the British Crown and Government, hold the opinion that the British cannot be trusted. I was of the opinion that this had changed and the UK could and do now act honourably. I will be very disappointed if I am proven wrong.

                              Time will tell.
                              Why would we pay for something we do not want? The government has a responsibility not to pay more than it needs to. If there isn't a deal and there is no legally binding agreement then we don't pay. Simple.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                              Comment


                              • So what does the UK want to do now?

                                Comment

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