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  • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

    True, but it is dominated by the EU and has adopted the European flag. It is, in practice though not in theory, an EU institution.
    Not even in practice. It has issued judgements against Russia. It has nothing to do with the EU, though many people do get confused....
    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
      That depends on who is talking. Rich people in the UK seem to be the winners in some of the more likely theories. That is cutting down the EU regulations would probably allow cutting down various protections (and their expenses) hence increasing profits. That route would mean that in the UK rich would get richer and the poor would get poorer as the inequality would increase. In another version slashing down the UK tariffs would allow every one to dump stuff into the UK crashing the UK prizes - while also crashing the UK agriculture and industry. That has some appeal again if you are already financially secure and do not have too many attachments to agriculture and/or manufacturing industry.

      But for a 'common man' there doesn't appear to be much upsides in Brexit. Apart from blue passports (made in France).
      It was the common man who voted for Brexit.
      There were many reasons why people voted leave, some economic, some about immigration but most about sovereignty. The battle cry of the Leave campaign was to 'take back control' which is why May's plan to give total control to the EU has caused such umbrage.

      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

        Not even in practice. It has issued judgements against Russia. It has nothing to do with the EU, though many people do get confused....
        I think you misunderstood my point.
        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
          The battle cry of the Leave campaign was to 'take back control'
          Sure, yea, in public. In private it was about jingoism, racism, immigration (not the same as racism), and a general sense of the decline of Britain and a harkening back to the age of Empire despite the fact that the vast majority of British people are far better off than at any stage during the time there was a British Empire.
          It's a pity they didn't come up with "Make Britain Great again", if only to stop Trump coming up with his BS slogan.

          "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
          validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
          "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

            It was the common man who voted for Brexit.
            Very much the common man.

            The polls showed the Brexit camp were mainly the old and those with few formal educational qualifications. The leaks from the Boris camp indicate they are preparing a bonfire of Employment Law & Regualtion that will make life very much harder for those at the low end of the earnings scale.
            It seems Turkeys do sometimes vote for Christmas!


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            • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

              I am strongly of the opinion that there is no way of avoiding a hard border. The real issue is how that will affect the East-West trade which is far more important to us. Less than 1% of our exports go North whereas over 30% of their go South.
              See Tony Connelly's article:


              The only checks that need to be AT the border are the checks on animals and food produce - this can be solved by an All-Ireland approach to agriculture ie NI remaining in the EU single market for agriculture.
              The EU will suggest that checks would need to be carried at British and Northern Irish ports on only one category of goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland in the event of the Irish backstop taking effect, RTE News understands.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by m kenny View Post

                Very much the common man.

                The polls showed the Brexit camp were mainly the old and those with few formal educational qualifications. The leaks from the Boris camp indicate they are preparing a bonfire of Employment Law & Regualtion that will make life very much harder for those at the low end of the earnings scale.
                It seems Turkeys do sometimes vote for Christmas!

                From the early 40s upwards by age were more likely to vote leave. Hardly just the age. Basically mature people voted to leave while the young and gullible voted to remain.

                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                  Basically mature people voted to leave while the young and gullible voted to remain.
                  .........Or the group with the highest incidence of dementia voted leave.

                  The figures show that if you were over 50 and had limited or no educational qualifications you were wired to vote leave.
                  Last edited by m kenny; 19 Sep 18, 14:16.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                    From the early 40s upwards by age were more likely to vote leave. Hardly just the age. Basically mature people voted to leave while the young and gullible voted to remain.
                    Except that, as future will probably show, the young weren't gullible. They just preferred to stay in EU... that's why it's hard to see any long-term changes in this. I mean, the old geezers will die off if nothing else, and then the vote will come around anyways.
                    Wisdom is personal

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                    • Originally posted by Karri View Post

                      Except that, as future will probably show, the young weren't gullible. They just preferred to stay in EU... that's why it's hard to see any long-term changes in this. I mean, the old geezers will die off if nothing else, and then the vote will come around anyways.
                      You never know though. Norway had a bitter referendum over the EEC in the 1970's. Unlike the UK the Norwegians voted no. There are still families with members that haven't spoken since. Walking down the street in Norway you can stumble across "Norway never in the EU!" mural paintings. And yet Norway has the now famous "Norwegian solution", with near-complete alignment without direct influence on EU decisions. But Norway sure isn't going to join.

                      Having gone through the trouble of leaving the UK is unlikely to rejoin. But the exact nature of the future relationship with the EU, how close or distant, will from now on be a continuously ongoing process for the UK. So it's leaving, but the idea that it's Leaving is illusory. The EU and UK are still located where they are, and at best the UK can from now on tinker with how stand-offish or likely to cuddle up to the EU it is, but it can't not do that.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Aber View Post

                        See Tony Connelly's article:


                        The only checks that need to be AT the border are the checks on animals and food produce - this can be solved by an All-Ireland approach to agriculture ie NI remaining in the EU single market for agriculture.
                        The UK government have rejected that option. Given that the Tory government is propped up by the Ulster Unionists, the only party in Northern Ireland who supported Brexit, it is impossible to see them accepting a customs division between Britain and Northern Ireland. The border will be between the UK and the mainland with Ireland in a very disadvantaged position. NI is an economic non entity anyway, it will continue to rely on the British taxpayer.
                        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                        Comment


                        • No signs of compromise today, No Deal is looking more likely.

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                          • Originally posted by Aber View Post
                            No signs of compromise today, No Deal is looking more likely.
                            Given the current alternatives that is probably the best option.
                            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                            Comment


                            • Prime Minister May to make statement saying that Brexit negotiations are at an impasse.
                              British Prime Minister Theresa May will make a statement this afternoon inside Downing Street after European Union leaders rejected key parts of her Brexit deal proposals at an informal summit in Austria, a government official has said.
                              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                              Comment


                              • When the UK proposed a referendum the EU was quite clear as to what was required if they wanted to stay within the single market (or have access to it) post-Brexit. That position hasn't changed because it can't. All the bluster ans posturing and name calling and faux disbelief by the little-englanders doesn't change that reality.
                                There is a certain incredulity on the EU side that the UK negotiators don't seem to realise that. The situation isn't helped by cowards like Boris Johnson who are full of exuberant pomposity but don't have the courage or backbone to actually get involved.
                                "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                                validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                                "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                                Comment

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