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  • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

    Another tiny nation struggling to survive is not a good bet.

    Struggling as badly as Eire (5th of 187 in the IMF GDP tables )which has a smaller population?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by m kenny View Post
      You are getting desperate.
      The Northern Ireland problem will never be solved all the while there are those running about blaming all the ills on the other side. Myopic nationalist who see no wrong in anything done by their 'side' and nothing but evil on the opposing side.
      A pox on the lot of you and you should be locked away in a sealed room until you all kill each other in the name of your flag whilst the rest of us get on with our lives. Making reasonable compromises (rather than demanding the 'enemy' admit they were wrong and you were right) is the only way forward.
      The time is coming when Unionists will be a minority in the North and I am willing to bet you will then be against any form of vote on re-unification of the Island. Better start getting on with each other whilst the two sides are roughly equal because it sure is going to get a lot harder when one side has a permanent grip on power.

      And don't speak too soon
      For the wheel's still in spin
      And there's no tellin' who
      That it's namin'.
      For the loser now
      Will be later to win
      For the times they are a-changin'
      .
      More nationalist propaganda that is irrelevant to Brexit.
      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
        Clearly no aspect of British history is in any way over and done with and all in the past, and most importantly as it relates to Ireland. And people wonder why the Eire-NI border issue has taken on such huge proportions in the Brexit discussions?
        You used a picture of an incident from 98 years ago to justify much more modern murders of UK citizens by your terrorist buddies. An incident where only one civilian died and that was an accident. Oradour it was not.

        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

          You used a picture of an incident from 98 years ago to justify much more modern murders of UK citizens by your terrorist buddies. An incident where only one civilian died and that was an accident. Oradour it was not.
          No I didn't. That's your extremely bad faith interpretation of what was a historical comment to AJR's rather bizarre UK-fanboiism in relation to the UK's troubled history with Ireland. You dredged up both modern murders and the assumption of supposed "terrorist buddies" of mine all by yourself.

          But you clearly are in a frame of mind where extreme umbrage is taken at imagined slights to the UK.

          Either the UK accepts owns its own history with Eire, warts and all, or it doesn't. But if your mindset here is that no bloody continental foreigners has any right to even comment on any part of it without breaking out in incriminations, then I think you're going to struggle.

          You apparently want a fight with the EU, or whomever you can find as a stand in, and you don't seem picky about your options either.

          Comment


          • The UK Government pays state pensions to expatriates all over the world, and is legally obliged to do so. Occupational pensions are a legally-binding contract, even before, "Scotland's Future," pointed out how the Scottish government would abide by its obligations. An independent Scotland wouldn't be, "A tiny nation struggling to survive," but the largest oil producer in the EU - not to mention our other exports. The projected Scottish Navy, while not a major player in global terms, would almost certainly be a US ally, and far more capable than anything in Scottish waters at present (the Trident fleet and a couple of inflatables).

            In Northern Ireland, the Brits committed as many atrocities as the Irish, and can truthfully be said to have caused many of Ireland's problems, while the current UK government sees the Protestants in NI as little more than an irritant.
            Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
              Clearly no aspect of British history is in any way over and done with and all in the past, and most importantly as it relates to Ireland.
              ??

              And people wonder why the Eire-NI border issue has taken on such huge proportions in the Brexit discussions?
              The border issue has taken on 'such huge proportions' because the EU negotiating team are using it as a point of leverage. A classic example of bad faith and arrogance,
              Unfortunately TM and here allies are too dim too declare no and never to a border.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by m kenny View Post

                The time is coming when Unionists will be a minority in the North and I am willing to bet you will then be against any form of vote on re-unification of the Island. Better start getting on with each other whilst the two sides are roughly equal because it sure is going to get a lot harder when one side has a permanent grip on power.
                Unionists being a minority in the North has been said for decades now.
                Under the Good Friday Agreement no side can have a permanent grip on power.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                  The border issue has taken on 'such huge proportions' because the EU negotiating team are using it as a point of leverage. A classic example of bad faith and arrogance,
                  That is pure nonsense from you. The border issue is important because when UK leaves the EU that border will turn from internal to external border. That alone might not be all that big of a problem but the UK has pledged to (i) support both GFA as well as the (ii) integrity of the N.I. to GB - while also pledging to (iii) quit the EU. You can have any two of those but you can't have all three. And the UK - which promised (in December) to deliver a plan how to deal with the case still has not delivered any kind of remotely realistic plan of doing so. Since it is going to turn into an external border the details need to be known now. Until UK comes up with actually workable suggestions pretty soon I would expect the government of the Republic of Ireland together with the EU assume that the case will default to GFA being abandoned and start preparing accordingly.
                  Unfortunately TM and here allies are too dim too declare no and never to a border.
                  That is not an option. Not a realistic one in any case. It is one of those things you can't sweep under the carpet and ignore but one you actually need to face and accept. Preferably also to decide on which route to go on but given the level of UK indecision that seems a tad of a tall order.
                  It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post

                    No I didn't. That's your extremely bad faith interpretation of what was a historical comment to AJR's rather bizarre UK-fanboiism in relation to the UK's troubled history with Ireland. You dredged up both modern murders and the assumption of supposed "terrorist buddies" of mine all by yourself.

                    But you clearly are in a frame of mind where extreme umbrage is taken at imagined slights to the UK.

                    Either the UK accepts owns its own history with Eire, warts and all, or it doesn't. But if your mindset here is that no bloody continental foreigners has any right to even comment on any part of it without breaking out in incriminations, then I think you're going to struggle.

                    You apparently want a fight with the EU, or whomever you can find as a stand in, and you don't seem picky about your options either.
                    If you post like an IRA fan boy then you will be responded to as such. I see no relevance of events 98 years ago to Brexit but apparently you do.
                    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                    Comment


                    • Yes, if the EU side so liked it could always adopt the position that the UK government's downright cavalier attitude to the quite real conundrum that the Eire-NI future border arrangements is a representation of how the UK's actions are a "classic example of bad faith and arrogance". If not towards the EU as a whole then towards the Irish republic.

                      So far the EU has fortunately refrained from anything as crude as that kind if name calling. It has no damn need.

                      And it's not the EU that is using Eire for leverage. The aggregate EU has simply so far been rather intently listening to the wishes of the Irish government.

                      The situation is extremely troublesome for the UK of course simply because the EU has literally no need whatsoever for leverage towards the UK over the border issue. For the EU it is "just" a difficult problem that needs to be fixed, but it provides no EXTRA leverage towards the UK. If anything it's the UK that is trying to leverage the growing acuteness of the situation to try to wring something from the EU. And that's because the UK otherwise pretty much lacks bugger all leverage in the negotiations. It's mostly limited to the amount of harm the UK might do to itself directly from a bungled exit process, and indirectly somewhat less to the more exposed EU members, in particular Eire.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                        If you post like an IRA fan boy then you will be responded to as such. I see no relevance of events 98 years ago to Brexit but apparently you do.
                        And you're ever so happy to oblige when hunting figments of your imagination.

                        AJR dipped the already gnarly discussion into the downright ludicrous, and you failed to pick up on that veer towards the downright bizarre. But good forbid that should pause a fraction of your feelings of righteous indignation at anything. You're pandering, but only to your own directionless sense of outrage.

                        By now I rather suspect that's what's left at the heart of the UK determination to see Brextit througgh; directionless indignation at things un-specifiable.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                          That is pure nonsense from you. The border issue is important because when UK leaves the EU that border will turn from internal to external border. That alone might not be all that big of a problem but the UK has pledged to (i) support both GFA as well as the (ii) integrity of the N.I. to GB - while also pledging to (iii) quit the EU. You can have any two of those but you can't have all three. And the UK - which promised (in December) to deliver a plan how to deal with the case still has not delivered any kind of remotely realistic plan of doing so. Since it is going to turn into an external border the details need to be known now. Until UK comes up with actually workable suggestions pretty soon I would expect the government of the Republic of Ireland together with the EU assume that the case will default to GFA being abandoned and start preparing accordingly.

                          That is not an option. Not a realistic one in any case. It is one of those things you can't sweep under the carpet and ignore but one you actually need to face and accept. Preferably also to decide on which route to go on but given the level of UK indecision that seems a tad of a tall order.
                          The EU has external land borders with a number of countries with no issues. Not all of those countries are within the customs union. No reason why there has to be any issues here. If the Irish government wishes to build a wall along the border that is a matter for them, not us.
                          Under the GFA citizens of Northern Ireland can choose to be British or Irish, no indication from HMG that there is any desire to change that. The UK's membership or otherwise of the EU has no effect on the terms of the GFA. The raising of the issue is just a land grab by the Irish PM.
                          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                            Yes, if the EU side so liked it could always adopt the position that the UK government's downright cavalier attitude to the quite real conundrum that the Eire-NI future border arrangements is a representation of how the UK's actions are a "classic example of bad faith and arrogance". If not towards the EU as a whole then towards the Irish republic.

                            So far the EU has fortunately refrained from anything as crude as that kind if name calling. It has no damn need.

                            And it's not the EU that is using Eire for leverage. The aggregate EU has simply so far been rather intently listening to the wishes of the Irish government.

                            The situation is extremely troublesome for the UK of course simply because the EU has literally no need whatsoever for leverage towards the UK over the border issue. For the EU it is "just" a difficult problem that needs to be fixed, but it provides no EXTRA leverage towards the UK. If anything it's the UK that is trying to leverage the growing acuteness of the situation to try to wring something from the EU. And that's because the UK otherwise pretty much lacks bugger all leverage in the negotiations. It's mostly limited to the amount of harm the UK might do to itself directly from a bungled exit process, and indirectly somewhat less to the more exposed EU members, in particular Eire.

                            Impressively bigoted "my side can do no wrong" sectarian analysis there.

                            You would fit in in Northern Ireland very well!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                              The EU has external land borders with a number of countries with no issues. Not all of those countries are within the customs union. No reason why there has to be any issues here. If the Irish government wishes to build a wall along the border that is a matter for them, not us.
                              Who said it be an issue for the EU? I already stated that unless the UK finally delivers what it had promised then the EU would likely had to action exactly towards such an end. Border doesn't require a wall though but it does require border controls and border checks and these would likely be seen to be contrary to the GFA - something the UK itself has pledge to support.
                              Under the GFA citizens of Northern Ireland can choose to be British or Irish, no indication from HMG that there is any desire to change that. The UK's membership or otherwise of the EU has no effect on the terms of the GFA. The raising of the issue is just a land grab by the Irish PM.
                              Sure it has - even the GFA itself make that abundantly clear with referring to the participants as 'partners in the European Union'. Also a hard border as such could be seeing invalidating GFA since several terms in it rely on 'all-island and cross-border' basis for their handling.
                              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                                Who said it be an issue for the EU? I already stated that unless the UK finally delivers what it had promised then the EU would likely had to action exactly towards such an end. Border doesn't require a wall though but it does require border controls and border checks and these would likely be seen to be contrary to the GFA - something the UK itself has pledge to support.

                                Sure it has - even the GFA itself make that abundantly clear with referring to the participants as 'partners in the European Union'. Also a hard border as such could be seeing invalidating GFA since several terms in it rely on 'all-island and cross-border' basis for their handling.
                                Again it would not be the UK's choice to put a hard border in place but rather the Irish governments. The UK does not have to put border controls in place regardless of any or no deal with the EU. It is having that choice that was what the referendum was about. I don't think the GFA mentions what border arrangements there should or shouldn't be and in any case it is the Irish who are threatening to put a hard border in place. Not the UK.

                                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                                Comment

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