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  • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
    Never heard of Copy and Paste?
    See my edit above, you have already signed it, leaving the EU doesn't relieve the UK of the obligations towards Canada, or indeed other 3rd parties - I think ??

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/ceta...deal-1.4776365

    "Our preference would be to lock in the terms of trade that are currently accorded by CETA into a U.K.-Canada agreement and then to begin to tweak those provisions so they make more sense for that U.K.-Canada relationship in the medium and long-term," Barr said.
    Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

    Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
      There's a farking great big green tick next to the flags of Canada and South Korea.
      Because those were not made impossible by the UK's red lines. Which is still true. However you should not expect the offered terms and conditions being the same - that is not stated, guaranteed or promised anywhere. If you imaged they were you were deluded. What you are expecting is a carbon copy - preferably with a cherry on top - that however is not marked anywhere on the document.
      You're lying to yourself if you insist that does not mean a relationship like theirs was on offer.
      It was marked as existing in a direct contrast to several of the other options which were as impossible. That is not the same that it would have been offered as is or with similar terms and conditions as which were in CETA.
      Also, note that red line of Regulatory autonomy. Apparently the EU thinks it can 'offer' a Canadian style deal but without Regulatory Autonomy
      There still was no offer anywhere. Furthermore what CETA does or does not require is not really relevant. Reason being quite obviously this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade. Which is obvious to any one remotely familiar with international trade. Also there was nothing stating that the EU would not be able to set the conditions and terms for reaching such an agreement as it saw fit.
      It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
        It seems most of the EU is in fact objecting to it
        That depends on the terms and conditions attached.
        Never heard of Copy and Paste?
        Not going to happen. That would not be accepted. It doesn't matter what the EU thinks on that issue - several of the member states have already made it clear that for CETA style association they require LPF guarantees. And there is nothing the EU can do about that even if it wanted to. It is enough that a single EU member states objects (or in some case just a part of member state objects - see for example Belgium).
        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

          Yes it does, of course it does. The EU created the graphic.

          Their problem is, in creating that graphic they bungled. They didn't actually think the UK would take that 'offer' up.
          So now they are backtracking


          And can rely on the usual credulous Eurotrolls to spout the papal infallibility line.
          Side note to that:
          Did you know that Anglicans are still, by formal titles, also "Catholics of the Anglican Rite:?
          sorry- had an English monment, everoone...

          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
            Because those were not made impossible by the UK's red lines. Which is still true. However you should not expect the offered terms and conditions being the same - that is not stated, guaranteed or promised anywhere. If you imaged they were you were deluded.
            At a time when there was plenty of flexibility on the UKs 'red lines' - owing to Theresa May having no majority in Parliament. The EU were trying to be too clever, and thinking a Canadian type deal would never be acceptable to the UK (therefore pick an earlier option)

            Only when the UK showed signs of taking that option seriously did the EU begin furiously backpedalling.


            What you are expecting is a carbon copy - preferably with a cherry on top - that however is not marked anywhere on the document.
            Just shows how stupid the EU is. The Canadian style deal is excellent for the EU - another gift from the UK to the continent - and the EU is well on course to throw that away

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
              At a time when there was plenty of flexibility on the UKs 'red lines' - owing to Theresa May having no majority in Parliament. The EU were trying to be too clever, and thinking a Canadian type deal would never be acceptable to the UK (therefore pick an earlier option)
              Since the EU started preparations for the no-deal quite early on that is not a plausible explanation. The EU made it clear from the start that it was up to the UK to determine which level of future cooperation they would like to get - but also that the UK would not be deciding the rules on that.
              Only when the UK showed signs of taking that option seriously did the EU begin furiously backpedalling.
              No, they haven't since such an option has not been offered. Or rather it has not been offered without additional terms and conditions. Besides the EU still aims for reason a deal. It just won't be the deal the UK wants.
              Just shows how stupid the EU is. The Canadian style deal is excellent for the EU - another gift from the UK to the continent - and the EU is well on course to throw that away
              What makes you imagine that it would be 'excellent' for the EU? Allowing the UK to undermine the EU? There is a reason for requiring the LPF guarantees. Without those it has a potential of becoming a poison pill. In this sense the no-deal is far better for the EU than such a deal.
              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                Eh? The EU is demanding a lot. Regulatory alignment and EU supervision of 'level playing field' rules, the Greeks want the Elgin Marbles, the French want to continue fishing our seas, the Spanish want Gibraltar. It has become a veritable EU shopping list of demands.
                I expect the Germans will demand an apology for the bombing of Dresden next
                /Facepalm. EU is answering to Johnson demands towards access to EU single market, not the other way around. EU position has been made clear for the last 3 years : no free acces to single market without cost. That this point is under discussion is only due to Johnson belief that UK can impose its will over decision made for years by 27 sovereign states. Current situation look new only for those who were too stupid to understand EU position for 3 years...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                  leaving the EU doesn't relieve the UK of the obligations towards Canada, or indeed other 3rd parties - I think ??

                  https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/ceta...deal-1.4776365
                  It does. However, If Canada and UK want to continue CETA arrangements between them, which they do, all that is required is a letter be exchanged between the two of them that states that they intend to keep honouring the provisions of CETA as if the UK was still part of the CETA deal. What that ctv article is saying is that CETA for now between UK and Canada but deeper later.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Metryll View Post

                    /Facepalm. EU is answering to Johnson demands towards access to EU single market, not the other way around. EU position has been made clear for the last 3 years : no free acces to single market without cost.
                    What UK demands? Beyond that an agreement is reached by 31st December 2020

                    Every country in the world has access to the EU single market

                    Many countries also have reciprocal tariff free arrangements with the EU.
                    None of which allow "EU supervision on so-called level playing field issues"

                    Comment


                    • An agreed upon tribunal to settle trade disputes though…..

                      https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp190052en.pdf

                      As regards the compatibility of the mechanism for the settlement of disputes with the right of access to an independent tribunal, the Court finds that the agreement seeks to ensure that the CETA Tribunal is accessible to any Canadian enterprise and any Canadian natural person that invests within the EU and to any enterprise and any natural person of a Member State of the EU that invests in Canada.
                      AND indeed, "level playing field" provisions…

                      http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_154331.pdf

                      CETA will create a more level playing field between Canada and the EU on intellectual property rights. For example, it will improve how Canada’s IPR system protects patents for EU pharmaceutical products.
                      Canada agreeing to protect 145 geographical indications for high quality European products, such as Roquefort cheese, balsamic vinegar from Modena or Dutch Gouda cheese and many others.
                      Last edited by Snowygerry; 25 Feb 20, 07:56.
                      Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                      Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                        An agreed upon tribunal to settle trade disputes though…..

                        https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp190052en.pdf

                        AND indeed, "level playing field" provisions…

                        http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_154331.pdf

                        Remember, its the EU that will not permit a UK-EU trade agreement like this. The EU wants control not a relationship of equals, in which case GFY.

                        So it appears anyway, we'll know more by Thursday

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gooner View Post


                          Remember, its the EU that will not permit a UK-EU trade agreement like this. The EU wants control not a relationship of equals, in which case GFY.

                          So it appears anyway, we'll know more by Thursday
                          But it's not a relationship of equals. After the UK leaves the EU's GDP is 6 times that of the UK.
                          The EU has to protect its own interests, just as the UK has to protect theirs. That's what the negotiation is about.
                          The UK's political declaration on the future political relationship gave a
                          Commitment to an "ambitious" trading relationship "on the basis of a free trade agreement", with mention of deep regulatory and customs co-operation and a level playing field for fair competition.

                          Now the UK is reneging on that commitment. Who is being dishonest here?
                          "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                          validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                          "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                            But it's not a relationship of equals. After the UK leaves the EU's GDP is 6 times that of the UK.
                            There's the problem. The EU doesn't want a relationship of equals? GFY.


                            The UK's political declaration on the future political relationship gave a
                            Commitment to an "ambitious" trading relationship "on the basis of a free trade agreement", with mention of deep regulatory and customs co-operation and a level playing field for fair competition.
                            Really?

                            Anyway, the UK position: "The UK’s written statement on the future relationship rejects the need for strong legal commitments on the level playing field, and the UK does not want to agree to measures which go beyond a typical trade agreement. It wishes to avoid EU law being the basis of establishing common standards and does not want to be subject to the jurisdiction of EU institutions.

                            The prime minister gave a speech following the publication of the EU’s draft mandate setting out further arguments for why the UK does not see the need for such obligations. He makes the case that the UK has higher standards than EU member states and the reason for this is not due to EU law. For example, the prime minister pointed out that the EU has enforced state aid rules against the UK only four times in the last 21 years, compared with 29 enforcement actions against France, 45 against Italy and 67 against Germany.


                            "Are the two sides positions irreconcilable?


                            It is possible to see how a deal on the level playing field could be struck if one or both sides moderated their demands. The UK government could agree to stronger level playing field provisions beyond what is agreed in normal free trade agreements without accepting the oversight of EU institutions. The EU may be persuaded that the UK’s domestic enforcement will be sufficient to maintain fair competition.

                            The most difficult issue is likely to be state aid. The EU will want the UK to dynamically align with EU rules and could expect the UK Competition and Markets Authority to defer to the Commission on its state aid decisions."

                            https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-playing-field

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                              Remember, its the EU that will not permit a UK-EU trade agreement like this.
                              So it appears anyway, we'll know more by Thursday
                              Well they have negotiated CETA they can negotiate another, that's why we pay them after all...

                              What happens Thursday ?

                              Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                              The prime minister gave a speech (….)
                              Hmm - what "Boris" says, is not always the same as what he does, so his history shows...

                              His speech was probably just a "thought exercise"
                              Last edited by Snowygerry; 25 Feb 20, 08:01.
                              Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                              Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                                What happens Thursday ?
                                When the negotiating mandates are published … I thought. The EU has published theirs just now

                                https://www.theguardian.com/politics...h-uk-live-news


                                WTO rules it is then!

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