Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brexit

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
    And? Was it ever explicitly stated (outside of the UK politicians and media) that the EU would automatically grant such a deal? It was only noted on the EU side that it was possible to reach such a deal - not that the UK would get it for free or even on the same conditions as what the Canada did. So where is the backtracking?
    It was implicitly stated by Barnier in 2017

    "A free trade deal with the European Union similar to those it has with Canada and South Korea is the logical outcome of Britain’s Brexit “red lines” and EU rules, according to a graphic issued by EU negotiator Michel Barnier on Tuesday."

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKBN1ED23R

    What I'm seeing is just the British deluding themselves.
    Good point, those stupid Brits deluding themselves that the EU would be honest and honourable in their negotiations.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
      EU wants nothing. UK is calling for demands,
      Eh? The EU is demanding a lot. Regulatory alignment and EU supervision of 'level playing field' rules, the Greeks want the Elgin Marbles, the French want to continue fishing our seas, the Spanish want Gibraltar. It has become a veritable EU shopping list of demands.
      I expect the Germans will demand an apology for the bombing of Dresden next

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
        It was implicitly stated by Barnier in 2017
        I wonder if you noticed but not even the source you are using states that.
        "A free trade deal with the European Union similar to those it has with Canada and South Korea is the logical outcome of Britain’s Brexit “red lines” and EU rules, according to a graphic issued by EU negotiator Michel Barnier on Tuesday."
        Have you considered actually reading what you are posting? It is referring to the same old 'Barnier's stair slide image' - "according to a graphic". So, no. It was still not showing anything other that it was possible to reach such an agreement after taking the UK red lines into account. However it was not showing or promising (or anything such) that such a deal would be automatically offered on similar terms as CETA. Just that it was something that despite of the UK's own red lines was still possible. And it is still possible. No one said it would be on the same conditions.
        Good point, those stupid Brits deluding themselves that the EU would be honest and honourable in their negotiations.
        Where exactly in that is any dishonesty? No one promised such an agreement for the UK on the same conditions as what Canada has.
        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          Have you considered actually reading what you are posting?
          Do you actually understand what the word implicit means?

          It was still not showing anything other that it was possible to reach such an agreement after taking the UK red lines into account.
          But it won't be such an agreement because the EU are unilaterally changing the terms.

          Where exactly in that is any dishonesty?
          Lies by omission.

          If the EU had been honest it would never have created this graphic




          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
            If the EU had been honest it would never have created this graphic
            It didn't apparently,

            source is parliament.uk

            Edit, they source it here :

            Source: European Commission, ‘Slide presented by Michel Barnier, European Commission Chief Negotiator, to the Heads of State and Government at the European Council (Article 50) on 15 December 2017’: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/slide-presented-michel-barnier-european-commission-chief-negotiator-heads-state-and-government-european-council-article-50-15-december-2017_en [accessed 27 April 2018]


            Remarks: This is only for presentational and information purposes. It is naturally without prejudice to discussions on the framework of the future relationship.
            Last edited by Snowygerry; 24 Feb 20, 06:37.
            Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

            Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

            Comment


            • Justice-Brexit_Slides-PowerPoint.png

              Meanwhile :

              Since the publication of the ‘staircase diagram’, Michel Barnier has taken a slightly more nuanced approach, acknowledging that the future relationship will be broader than merely a free trade agreement. In February 2018, he suggested that a future relationship might be predicated on ‘four pillars’, containing multiple agreements:
              Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

              Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

              Comment


              • I think this is a reasonable assessment :

                178.It is clear to us that whatever formal structure is adopted for the future UK-EU relationship, it is likely to be composite in nature: there will be different levels of integration in different areas. It follows that there will be no ‘one-size-fits-all’ mechanism for enforcement and dispute resolution. This could mean that the UK would only be obliged to accept the jurisdiction of the CJEU in specific and limited areas, for instance those involving direct co-operation with EU agencies, or within the field of justice and home affairs.
                Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                Comment


                • 1*hZXS0fkolMYvTwyF0oLe4Q.jpg

                  This is one Barnier made up when he was drunk

                  Or for a slightly more dramatic version :

                  DRqg7bLX4AAvAjo.jpg
                  Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                  Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                    Do you actually understand what the word implicit means?
                    The problem is that it wasn't even that. You are deliberately in bad faith misrepresenting the diagram. No such deal was promised or offered. If you or the UK believed so that is your problem - no one made such an offer.
                    But it won't be such an agreement because the EU are unilaterally changing the terms.
                    No one presented any terms earlier because there was no propositions - just showing the extent limited by the UK's red lines. You didn't actually think that you could just dictate the terms from there did you? Just read what Snowygerry posted.
                    Lies by omission.

                    If the EU had been honest it would never have created this graphic
                    How so? The only reason why it may seem to you so is because you have not understood what the diagram is about. It is about the limits caused by the UK's own red lines. It doesn't say anything of what the EU wants or on what conditions.
                    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                      It doesn't say anything of what the EU wants
                      Yes it does, of course it does. The EU created the graphic.

                      Their problem is, in creating that graphic they bungled. They didn't actually think the UK would take that 'offer' up.
                      So now they are backtracking


                      And can rely on the usual credulous Eurotrolls to spout the papal infallibility line.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                        The UK is easy to co-operate with. The problems are all going to lie with EU.

                        Comment


                        • Honestly - I doubt anyone would object to a Canada style agreement with the UK, if one can be found.

                          But CETA is 1600 pages or so, took years to work out, anyone who thinks this can be done before 31/12/20 is dreaming imho.

                          Edit :

                          http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/doc...doc_152806.pdf

                          Also - the UK is already a signatory of CETA, on the EU side, don't know what the implications of THAT are exactly in regard to Brexit

                          Presumably there's any number of agreements the UK will have to break, or abide by ??
                          Last edited by Snowygerry; 24 Feb 20, 08:13.
                          Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                          Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                            Yes it does, of course it does. The EU created the graphic.
                            The EU did create it. To demonstrate the effects of the UK's red lines. And it is very clear in its purpose. The problem only occurs when some people try to claim that it would 'offer' anything.
                            Their problem is, in creating that graphic they bungled. They didn't actually think the UK would take that 'offer' up.
                            So now they are backtracking.
                            No. The graphic is great for its purpose. As said the problem only occurs when some one tries to read more from than what it actually represents. There were no offers in that. It was only showing what the UK's own red line marked as impossible. It did not offer or promise anything - it did not mark conditions nor did it promise that the UK could achieve deals with similar conditions as what other countries had. That belief into something that had actually never been offered or promised is exactly what i referred to with delusions by the British.

                            Don't get me wrong though - the UK can still aim for CETA style agreement. But you should not delude yourself into believing that the conditions and terms would be the same or better than the ones offered to Canada. They may be, then again they may not. And most likely not. It depends on if the UK can be seen as being trustworthy and not trying to undermine the EU. Trying to find loopholes in the existing agreements like Boris is doing is rather counterproductive.
                            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                              The EU did create it. To demonstrate the effects of the UK's red lines. And it is very clear in its purpose. The problem only occurs when some people try to claim that it would 'offer' anything.
                              There's a farking great big green tick next to the flags of Canada and South Korea.

                              You're lying to yourself if you insist that does not mean a relationship like theirs was on offer.

                              Also, note that red line of Regulatory autonomy. Apparently the EU thinks it can 'offer' a Canadian style deal but without Regulatory Autonomy

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                                Honestly - I doubt anyone would object to a Canada style agreement with the UK, if one can be found.
                                It seems most of the EU is in fact objecting to it

                                But CETA is 1600 pages or so, took years to work out, anyone who thinks this can be done before 31/12/20 is dreaming imho.
                                Never heard of Copy and Paste?

                                I expect the very most the EU will get will be a very short technical delay to cross the eyes and dot the tees.

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X