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  • I can't see the EU going along with what the UK wants in the negotiations. Most likely the EU does pretty much the same as what it did with withdrawal agreement. Gives assortment of options for the UK to choose from but they are all going to be package choices - not pick and choose candy isle things.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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    • Things are somewhat different now though, the UK has in effect become a one-party state.

      So instead of trying find an agreement that pleases all segments of the British political landscape, this time all the EU needs is an agreement with Johnson, who can just run it through UK parliament.

      That simplifies matters enormously
      Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

      Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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      • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
        Things are somewhat different now though, the UK has in effect become a one-party state.

        So instead of trying find an agreement that pleases all segments of the British political landscape, this time all the EU needs is an agreement with Johnson, who can just run it through UK parliament.

        That simplifies matters enormously
        For the UK side, yes. But it really has no effect on the EU side as the options were the same to begin with. Maybe it could make the faster for the UK to make up its mind and pick one instead of the endless dithering and infighting among the British.
        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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        • Hmm - Johnson was already able to agree to an exit plan refused by Theresa May earlier (Border in the Irish Sea), the assumption is he'll be fairly easy to deal with in regard to a trade agreement as well.

          He'll probably throw the fishermen and farmers under the boat, in return for access to the EU market for the financial services of London City.

          He was never a hardcore Brexiteer, he's in fact one of "them"...like Cameron and the others.
          Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

          Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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          • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
            Things are somewhat different now though, the UK has in effect become a one-party state.

            So instead of trying find an agreement that pleases all segments of the British political landscape, this time all the EU needs is an agreement with Johnson, who can just run it through UK parliament.

            That simplifies matters enormously
            Not entirely - Boris doesn't particularly care what happens, as long as he can blame someone else - he wants shot of Scotland, but doesn't want to be, "The PM who broke up the UK." If he gets a convenient scapegoat, the EU can do anything they like.
            Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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            • Originally posted by the ace View Post
              If he gets a convenient scapegoat, the EU can do anything they like.
              We'll send Guy Verhofstadt over, twice a week, he can stand in Trafalgar Square and you can throw tomatoes, or fish
              Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

              Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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              • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                Things are somewhat different now though, the UK has in effect become a one-party state.

                So instead of trying find an agreement that pleases all segments of the British political landscape, this time all the EU needs is an agreement with Johnson, who can just run it through UK parliament.

                That simplifies matters enormously

                Farage ain't going away just yet.

                swo7pfzeybrykmnwoypr.jpg

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                • He's just a bloke in the pub now, his only political mandate was, ironically, his seat in EU parliament.

                  Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                  Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                  • Originally posted by CarpeDiem View Post
                    This sums up my take on Brexit quite well.
                    and matches a lot of what I’ve seen posted right here.

                    http://kevintelfer.com/2018/03/07/wh...e-uk-a-future/

                    The fixation with looking backwards was one of the reasons my parents emigrated from the UK to Canada. Whenever I visit my family still there ,the divide among generational attitudes is astounding and stark.

                    Be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

                    Not the old 'looking backwards' canard. You realise that the young people wjo voted to stay in the EEC in 1975 were the ones who voted to leave in 2016.

                    It's not because of the past that the country voted to leave its because of the future. The preference to being a Sovereign nation state over being a region of the EU.


                    Clement Attlee being 'backward looking' in 1962:

                    "“We are to become part of a larger whole, an appendage to Europe” he said. “It may be right now, but, historically, that has not been our position. We may have been at the centre of markets, but we have not been in one market and out of the others. … We have never put ourselves into a position in which we were inside a ring-fence with a number of Continental Powers. Make no mistake: it is an entire change.”

                    He was unimpressed by the prospect of maximising influence through membership. “I do not quite know what is the meaning of, ‘being at the centre of power.’ We are apparently joining one power bloc. Here, too, the historic position of this country is that we do not, except in the case of a grave emergency like war, join ourselves with any one power bloc. … I may be merely insular, but I have no prejudice in a Britain planned for the British by the British. Therefore, as at present advised, I am quite unconvinced either that it is necessary or that it is even desirable that we should go into the Common Market.”

                    https://thecritic.co.uk/clement-attl...het-of-brexit/

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                    • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                      He's just a bloke in the pub now, his only political mandate was, ironically, his seat in EU parliament.
                      Uh, no, the Brexit Party remains. If Boris caves in to the EU expect them to fight every Tory seat in the next election.

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                      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                        Uh, no, the Brexit Party remains. If Boris caves in to the EU expect them to fight every Tory seat in the next election.
                        In 2025 ?

                        Half of those that voted "leave" will be dead by then.

                        Edit, I was watching images of a celebrating Brexiteer in London yesterday, bottle in hand, one front tooth missing, he stated that Brexit feels the same "...as watching England play really well" -

                        he must be close to one hundred years old if he remembers how THAT felt no
                        Last edited by Snowygerry; 03 Feb 20, 07:00.
                        Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                        Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                        • Originally posted by Gooner View Post


                          Not the old 'looking backwards' canard. You realise that the young people wjo voted to stay in the EEC in 1975 were the ones who voted to leave in 2016.

                          It's not because of the past that the country voted to leave its because of the future. The preference to being a Sovereign nation state over being a region of the EU.


                          Clement Attlee being 'backward looking' in 1962:

                          "“We are to become part of a larger whole, an appendage to Europe” he said. “It may be right now, but, historically, that has not been our position. We may have been at the centre of markets, but we have not been in one market and out of the others. … We have never put ourselves into a position in which we were inside a ring-fence with a number of Continental Powers. Make no mistake: it is an entire change.”

                          He was unimpressed by the prospect of maximising influence through membership. “I do not quite know what is the meaning of, ‘being at the centre of power.’ We are apparently joining one power bloc. Here, too, the historic position of this country is that we do not, except in the case of a grave emergency like war, join ourselves with any one power bloc. … I may be merely insular, but I have no prejudice in a Britain planned for the British by the British. Therefore, as at present advised, I am quite unconvinced either that it is necessary or that it is even desirable that we should go into the Common Market.”

                          https://thecritic.co.uk/clement-attl...het-of-brexit/
                          Again I look at the posts on here and what do I see.
                          A lot of looking backwards. A celebration post that references an event that took place almost 100 years ago to use as an example of how the UK, no more accurately the English, will carry on.
                          No acknowledgement of how different the circumstances then are from the world today.
                          Videos of Brexiters with a demographic makeup which is astoundingly homogeneous singing “Land of Hope and Glory”.
                          The actual breakdown of the voting by age.
                          The historical rhetoric focussed on past greatness.
                          Again the words of many Brexiters in my own family.
                          Whatever lip service may be paid to the future , the eyes of many in the UK are looking firmly backwards.
                          I love history, I appreciate my heritage and the history of the place I was born. I also think that the UK spends an inordinate amount of energy holding on to glories that are fading even further into the past. Looking at what the essay I posted says (which I agree with) and other aspects of popular culture (the UK seems to produce more historical based TV shows than any other English speaking nation if TV listings are anything to go on), it seems to me that history and what once was still have a large hold over British culture and politics.

                          I do truly hope that this decision works out as well as hoped for.

                          Good luck.

                          Ps: love the irony of using an almost 60 year old quote when making the point that looking backwards is a canard
                          Last edited by CarpeDiem; 03 Feb 20, 07:29.

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                          • Originally posted by CarpeDiem View Post
                            I love history, I appreciate my heritage and the history of the place I was born. I also think that the UK spends an inordinate amount of energy holding on to glories that are fading even further into the past. Looking at what the essay I posted says (which I agree with) and other aspects of popular culture (the UK seems to produce more historical based TV shows than any other English speaking nation if TV listings are anything to go on), it seems to me that history and what once was still have a large hold over British culture and politics.
                            Fair enough. But haven't British emigrants to the New World always considered that their former home was rather stuck in the past?
                            That the UK should produce more historical show than other English speaking countries really be a surprise - we have a lot more history! Then again about half of Shakespeare's plays were histories so perhaps the English were also backward looking in Elizabethan times.



                            Ps: love the irony of using an almost 60 year old quote when making the point that looking backwards is a canard
                            Anthony Eden also got it straight away:
                            “Last week the Common Market Commission published a memorandum, which I have seen,” Eden observed. “They say that progress towards economic union is progress towards political union. In other words, the E.E.C. is not, in their opinion, just an economic venture but a means of bringing about political integration through economic policy. … what I am saying is that it is a confession of intent which we should be ostriches to ignore.”

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                            • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                              We'll send Guy Verhofstadt over, twice a week, he can stand in Trafalgar Square and you can throw tomatoes, or fish
                              He would be welcomed in Sealand, the last independent hold out of the EU on the British Coast....


                              Last edited by marktwain; 03 Feb 20, 11:45.
                              The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                              • France gave the UK a nice little send off at the 6 nations tourney yesterday.
                                You'll live, only the best get killed.

                                -General Charles de Gaulle

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