Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brexit

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Vaeltaja
    The EU can not hold any member states in it against their own will.
    This, if anything, was right out disingenuous.

    There are many ways in which you can go about creating a situation in which it would be near impossible for a member nation to leave, yet say that it is theoretically possible, and, it could very well be theoretically possible.

    Originally posted by E.D. Morel
    all the EU has done is make all it's members richer, freer and more stable while protecting the rights and freedoms of the citizens of the countries within the Union.
    I would dispute all of that, for now let's look at richer shall we: Well, it is certainly true that lesser nations are leeching on greater nations for their upkeep, and that it has made them "richer", and it is certainly true that the bureaucrats in Brussels are using the wealth of the greater nations to prop up these lesser nations with.

    That is not wealth created in accordance to these lesser nations ability. It has also resulted in the populations of the greater nations to be worse off.

    Adding to the issue (mind you, not just economic in nature) are the influx of economic migrants from Africa and the Middle East, who bring nothing but need, and it further taxes these greater nations even more.

    Originally posted by E.D.Morel
    the Brexiteers are harkening back to had an empire and empires are built on conquest, blood, exploitation and suffering. Nothing to be proud of.
    What they want is self determination, just like all peoples do.



    You have, like so many others, fallen victim of the mind game the proponents of the EU (and the globalists) have weaponized and are using against you.

    Namely, that if whites look toward their own racial, ethnic, and cultural best interest it leads to all things horror.

    Which is utter BS.

    And in the context of EU, that would be the English desire to self determination. That this would somehow be a threat.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by walle View Post
      I would dispute all of that, for now let's look at richer shall we: Well, it is certainly true that lesser nations are leeching on greater nations for their upkeep, and that it has made them "richer", and it is certainly true that the bureaucrats in Brussels are using the wealth of the greater nations to prop up these lesser nations with.

      That is not wealth created in accordance to these lesser nations ability. It has also resulted in the populations of the greater nations to be worse off.
      Per Capita Income in Germany in 1990 was $19,950 (PPP) In 2017 it was $51,760 (PPP). Due to the Euro no country in the EU has benefited more from EU membership over the last 20 years.
      In France the Per Capita Income in 1990 was $17,730 (PPP). In 2017 it was $43,720.

      Cumulative Eurozone inflation over the last 20 years has been 42.67%.
      Therefore, adjusted for inflation the per capita income in Germany in 2017 $36,280 or 80% higher, in real terms, than in 1990.

      You are factually incorrect in your belief that EU membership has not greatly improved the incomes of the populace of the large EU members (I presume that is what you mean when you refer to "greater" nations).


      Originally posted by walle View Post
      Adding to the issue (mind you, not just economic in nature) are the influx of economic migrants from Africa and the Middle East, who bring nothing but need, and it further taxes these greater nations even more.
      Around 4.4% of EU residents are non EU citizens.
      In 2016 there were 618,780 illegal migrants/immigrants in the EU. That's 0.12% of the total population. Given that those figures are for all illegals it is safe to say that the total from Africa and the Middle East account for far less than 0.1 of one percent of the total population. I wouldn't describe that as a crisis or an existential threat to the existence of the EU.


      Originally posted by walle View Post
      What they want is self determination, just like all peoples do.
      The good news is that they already have that. If you believe that being a member of the EU somehow removes people's self determination then you are, at best, ill informed.


      Originally posted by walle View Post
      You have, like so many others, fallen victim of the mind game the proponents of the EU (and the globalists) have weaponized and are using against you.
      What does that mean? Try to deal in facts rather than hyperbole and the neurotic ramblings of kids and frightened basement dwellers on YouTube.

      Originally posted by walle View Post
      Namely, that if whites look toward their own racial, ethnic, and cultural best interest it leads to all things horror.
      Are you suggesting that the countries in the EU 27 are not white. I think there might be more darkies and rag-heads in little-england than on the mainland.

      Originally posted by walle View Post
      Which is utter BS.
      I agree, but I don't think we are referring to the same thing.


      Originally posted by walle View Post
      And in the context of EU, that would be the English desire to self determination. That this would somehow be a threat.
      And that's the problem; the UK can survive Scottish Nationalism, Welsh Nationalism and Nationalism in Northern Ireland but it can't survive English Nationalism.
      Last edited by E.D. Morel; 04 Sep 19, 12:17.
      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

      Comment


      • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

        What on earth are you talking about?
        D'uh! The Empire is the EU , the Leavers are harkening back to the days of the Nation State.

        Comment


        • When I said greater nations I meant greater nations, itís not necessarily tied with the sheer number of people.

          You know as well as I do that you cannot look at the numbers that way, although it looks impressive when they are presented in that fashion. It looks almost educated.

          Originally posted by E.D. Morel
          The good news is that they already have that. If you believe that being a member of the EU somehow removes people's self determination then you are, at best, ill informed.

          The context was self determination as a nation, not on an individual level of you making choices at Starbucks.

          Originally posted by E.D. Morel
          Try to deal in facts rather than hyperbole and the neurotic ramblings of kids and frightened basement dwellers on YouTube
          I addressed your comment, and the reason behind it.

          How yo marry that with hyperbole and possible neurotic ramblings of kids and frightened basement dwellers on YouTube I donít know, but Iím looking forward to you expanding on it.

          Perhaps for a different thread?


          Originally posted by E.D. Morel
          Are you suggesting that the countries in the EU 27 are not white. I think there might be more darkies and rag-heads in little-england than on the mainland.

          Now youíve lost me.

          Originally posted by E.D. Morel
          I agree, but I don't think we are referring to the same thing.
          How can you agree when you donít understand the context of what it is you are agreeing with? Let alone disagreeing with.

          Originally posted by E.D. Morel
          And that's the problem; the UK can survive Scottish Nationalism, Welsh Nationalism and Nationalism in Northern Ireland but it can't survive English Nationalism.
          Thereís room for all these peoples, and that includes the English.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

            D'uh! The Empire is the EU , the Leavers are harkening back to the days of the Nation State.
            The bureaucrats in Brussels want a European superstate, and in such a state there's no room for sovereign nation states.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by walle View Post
              There are many ways in which you can go about creating a situation in which it would be near impossible for a member nation to leave, yet say that it is theoretically possible, and, it could very well be theoretically possible.
              To clarify for you, it is not the EU which is making UK's exit from the EU so difficult. Not understanding the EU and not understanding what the EU values and therefore on which matters the EU would not compromise were all failures from the UK side. Additional problems are currently being caused by the UK's decisions early in 20th century to do things with the island of Ireland. Irish troubles are a lengthy story so it probably doesn't need to be referenced here any more - and the solution to the Irish issues (GFA) relies on there being a border-less situation to the N.I. (not literally in the text but in practice). Those are the reasons why the negotiations were such as they were and why N.I. is such of a mess. The report from the UK government marked that the backstop is only currently known sort of a solution to the issue there - it is a horrible solution but so far no one has been able to come forward with anything better.

              It is impossible to leave the EU and continue enjoying the perks of the EU membership. But that is very different from being 'near impossible' to leave - just that you can not have your cake and eat it too. Besides with regards to the Brexit the EU has not taken actions which would have been punitive or which would have made the leaving more difficult than it already was due to UK's existing commitments.
              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

              Comment


              • Originally posted by walle View Post
                The bureaucrats in Brussels want a European superstate, and in such a state there's no room for sovereign nation states.
                Good news for you is that the bureaucrats in Brussels can not decide such issues. Which you would know if you had any kind of an inkling as to how the EU works. Only areas where the EU has competence is in areas where the member states themselves have explicitly given competence to the EU - the EU can not take that competence without approval from the member states. It is the EU Council (i.e. the EU member states themselves) which set the direction for the EU and which goals the EU Commission (i.e. civil service or bureaucrats) should pursue. Additionally any EU legislative push that would affect the rights of the member states requires there to be unanimity in the member states as well as gaining acceptance from the EU Parliament so if even one member state opposes it could not go through. In other words the bureaucrats in Brussels could never accomplish such a thing without being explicitly instructed by the EU member states to pursue such a goal and even that would require full support of all the EU member states as well as from the EU Parliament.

                Another aspect is that the EU is deliberately geared so that no one country, regardless of how powerful, can ever dictate the EU matters. The structure makes that impossible.
                It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                Comment


                • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                  What on earth are you talking about?
                  "rule, Britannia
                  Britannia waives the rules...."
                  The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by walle View Post
                    When I said greater nations I meant greater nations, itís not necessarily tied with the sheer number of people.
                    What's your definition of a "greater nation"?

                    Originally posted by walle View Post
                    You know as well as I do that you cannot look at the numbers that way, although it looks impressive when they are presented in that fashion. It looks almost educated.
                    What other method would you suggest can be used to measure the wealth of the people within a nation than what the earn?
                    General health? That's got better.
                    Life expectancy? That's got better (except in the UK in recent years)
                    What else do you suggest?

                    Originally posted by walle View Post

                    The context was self determination as a nation, not on an individual level of you making choices at Starbucks.
                    I don't like crap coffee so I don't go to Starbucks. I was of course referring to the self determination of the people within the countries who are members of the EU. They still have the same level of self determination that they had prior to joining the EU. Many have more.

                    Originally posted by walle View Post
                    I addressed your comment, and the reason behind it.
                    Can you address them again, this time with something substantive and not groundless, meaningless, rambling hyperbole?

                    Originally posted by walle View Post
                    [COLOR=#161616][FONT=Arial]How yo marry that with hyperbole and possible neurotic ramblings of kids and frightened basement dwellers on YouTube I donít know, but Iím looking forward to you expanding on it.
                    Because that's exactly what it sounds like. It is meaningless and without substance.


                    Originally posted by walle View Post

                    Now youíve lost me.
                    You are talking about white people wanting to protect their culture and identity in the context of the UK leaving the EU. I pointed out that the EU is made up of white people and the UK has a higher proportion of non-whites than the rest of the EU. I ignored the inherent racism in your comment so as not to dsitrace from the rest of the discussion.

                    Originally posted by walle View Post
                    How can you agree when you donít understand the context of what it is you are agreeing with? Let alone disagreeing with.
                    I agreed that there was plenty of BS but the comment implied that it was of your making. I'll try to keep it simpler and more direct in future.

                    Originally posted by walle View Post
                    Thereís room for all these peoples, and that includes the English.
                    What do you mean by that?
                    My point was that without any of the other provinces of the UK there would still be a UK. Without England there would be no UK.
                    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by walle
                      Once you understand that they want to build a European Super State all the noise is cancelled out and things start to fall into place.
                      You clearly didn't understand. Or just refuse to understand. Those 'bureaucrats of Brussel' which you are afraid of would not even matter on such an issue - they would have no say of any kind in it. No power, nothing. The member states themselves with unanimity together with the parliament need decide on such issues. How the member states do that is matter for the member states themselves to figure out, the EU doesn't control that.
                      It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                      Comment


                      • @Vaeltaja

                        If you wanna stare at the painting from a centimeter away, and get lost in all the details that eventually will overwhelm you, opposed to stepping back a couple of meters, to see the complete picture.

                        Then that is up to you.

                        Once you understand that they want to build a European Super State all the noise is cancelled out and things will start to fall into place.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by walle View Post
                          @Vaeltaja

                          If you wanna stare at the painting from a centimeter away, and get lost in all the details that eventually will overwhelm you, opposed to stepping back a couple of meters, to see the complete picture.

                          Then that is up to you.

                          Once you understand that they want to build a European Super State all the noise is cancelled out and things start to fall into place.


                          So the real reason to support Brexit is yet more groundless ramblings, this time a grand conspiracy theory which falls apart with even the most rudimentary understanding of the structures of the EU.
                          "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                          validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                          "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by walle View Post
                            If you wanna stare at the painting from a centimeter away, and get lost in all the details that eventually will overwhelm you, opposed to stepping back a couple of meters, to see the complete picture.
                            That is a good advice for you yourself to heed. You really should try that yourself. You are fixated on your hatred of the 'bureaucrats of Brussel' that you fail to see that they would not even matter on such an issue which you keep babbling about. As said before if you had even a cursory understanding of how the EU works (i.e. that you would have ability and/or willingness to look at the big picture) would know how silly and nonsensical your argument is.
                            Once you understand that they want to build a European Super State all the noise is cancelled out and things will start to fall into place.
                            It doesn't matter what you imagine the 'bureaucrats of Brussel' (boB) want. For one they have no power or tools to accomplish that. They do not control anything which would be required for it either. And second, you have not provided anything beyond your fantasies as reasons why it would be so. I'm not sure in which place such nonsense would go through but here serious arguments require actual fact based support - and you have not provided any.
                            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                              It doesn't matter what you imagine the 'bureaucrats of Brussel' (boB) want. For one they have no power or tools to accomplish that
                              They share the same goal and are there to implement the agenda.

                              Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

                              So the real reason to support Brexit is yet more groundless ramblings, this time a grand conspiracy theory which falls apart with even the most rudimentary understanding of the structures of the EU.

                              Why don't you start by reminding us all what it was meant to be, and how it was sold to the people, then compare to where it is today and what it is today, and then say that the agenda is not to create a European superstate.

                              It already has its own flag, it's own anthem, mutual currency, and there are talks about an army etc.


                              Edit
                              I don't like the term conspiracy theorist, not just because it is dismissive and right out stupid, but because it is also an attempt to discredit any man who believes that there is a method behind the madness of those in charge.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by walle View Post

                                They share the same goal and are there to implement the agenda.
                                You have attributed Vaeltaja's comment to me.



                                Originally posted by walle View Post
                                Why don't you start by reminding us all what it was meant to be, and how it was sold to the people, then compare to where it is today and what it is today, and then say that the agenda is not to create a European superstate.

                                It already has its own flag, it's own anthem, mutual currency, and there are talks about an army etc.
                                I have responded to your previous comments and refuted them with facts and statistics. If you want your views to be taken seriously I suggest you offer something of a similar nature, or something in some way substantive, when presenting them.
                                Try going back and responding to some of the facts which refute your opinions. That would be a good start.


                                Originally posted by walle View Post
                                Edit
                                I loath the term conspiracy theory and conspiracy theorist, not just because it is dismissive and right out stupid, but because it is also an attempt to discredit any man who believes that there is a method behind the madness of those in charge.
                                Yes, conspiracy theorists generally don't like being called conspiracy theorists but without facts and data to back up your opinions that's all they are.
                                "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                                validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                                "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X