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  • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
    We don't. A similar arrangement to that with Canada would be fine. ALL agreements between the EU and external countries involve cherry picking.
    That has been proposed by the EU but it wasn't acceptable to the UK. And the point about the 'without cherry picking' was that the EU offered to the UK (for example) 'Norway deal' with roughly equal rights and obligations as what Norway has. Canada style arrangement would likely be quite fine for the EU as long as UK would end up having roughly similar rights and obligations as what Canada has - after all that is only fair. Additionally the UK kinda needs to give a proposal (one without unicorns or 'yet to be invented' technologies this time) as to how it intends to resolve the border issue between RoI and N.I.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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    • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
      That really depends on what kind of Brexit the UK tries to aim for - of the proposed options that is. Or what did you refer to with 'the proposed Brexit'? And i think you have somewhat misunderstood the structure of the EU with the second part of your question. EU countries contribute to the EU budget but they have their own budgets as well. The EU budget is primarily used for (i) running the EU structures (5% or so), (ii) growth (in essence trying to bring all of the EU to the even level - in the end) and infrastructure (around 50%), (iii) natural resources (mainly agriculture & fisheries) and environment (over 40%).
      One of the reasons for the EU's historic unpopularity.

      Billions £ of funding taken from the UK taxpayer, along with the Germans and Dutch, given as handouts to idle French farmers and originally Southern Europeans (i.e. Italian Mafia) but now including Eastern Europe. It is a gravy train from those who work to those who don't.
      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
        Billions £ of funding taken from the UK taxpayer, along with the Germans and Dutch, given as handouts to idle French farmers and originally Southern Europeans (i.e. Italian Mafia) but now including Eastern Europe. It is a gravy train from those who work to those who don't.
        Don't worry, they are giving those to lazy UK farmers and bums too. The main reason for that is to make sure the EU doesn't develop into a system where the highly advanced economies would just exploit the other member states.
        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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        • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          That really depends on what kind of Brexit the UK tries to aim for - of the proposed options that is. Or what did you refer to with 'the proposed Brexit'? And i think you have somewhat misunderstood the structure of the EU with the second part of your question. EU countries contribute to the EU budget but they have their own budgets as well. The EU budget is primarily used for (i) running the EU structures (5% or so), (ii) growth (in essence trying to bring all of the EU to the even level - in the end) and infrastructure (around 50%), (iii) natural resources (mainly agriculture & fisheries) and environment (over 40%).
          Sure...works like the UN is supposed to and doesn't. Who's covering Greece's tab? 50% pays for whose infrastructure? That's a big chunk.
          And what is the uproar over Britain leaving about? Seems like the Euro would just go on.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
            One of the reasons for the EU's historic unpopularity.

            Billions £ of funding taken from the UK taxpayer, along with the Germans and Dutch, given as handouts to idle French farmers and originally Southern Europeans (i.e. Italian Mafia) but now including Eastern Europe. It is a gravy train from those who work to those who don't.
            Or:

            Billions £s of funding taken from the London/SE taxpayer, given as handouts to idle British farmers and Northerners (i.e lazy Jocks and Geordies) but now including the Northern Irish as a bribe to keep the Tories in power.. It is a gravy train from those who work to those who don't.

            I guess you don't agree with the concept of the rich parts of a family looking after the poorer half.

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            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Sure...works like the UN is supposed to and doesn't. Who's covering Greece's tab? 50% pays for whose infrastructure? That's a big chunk.
              It was combined 'growth + infrastructure' - and mainly those go to upgrading existing infrastructure or to new infrastructure projects proposed by the member states in accordance to the set criteria. It includes all kinds of stuff from education grants to new road construction. It hasn't been all good in the past though - at least earlier the EU relied on member states to handle the matters but IIRC that came to an end after an EU audit found out how the member states had been wasting the EU funding. Not really a corruption but more of lack of planning on local level and lack of supervision on the EU level. Hilariously the increased EU supervision to prevent member states from pissing away the EU funds is a real red cloth to the 'anti-federalists' who seem to be really keen to get EU funding but not at all interested in having the EU observe how they are used. As an example: EU and Poland's 'ghost' airports, similar wastage occurred in Spain, Greece, Estonia and Italy (see).

              Issue with Greece's tab is more related to the Euro-zone (and more explicitly the member states of Euro-zone) than to the EU.
              And what is the uproar over Britain leaving about? Seems like the Euro would just go on.
              There is very little uproar from the EU side about that. There is some uproar against the UK's wanting to have their cake and eat it too negotiating stance.
              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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              • Originally posted by m kenny View Post

                Or:

                Billions £s of funding taken from the London/SE taxpayer, given as handouts to idle British farmers and Northerners (i.e lazy Jocks and Geordies) but now including the Northern Irish as a bribe to keep the Tories in power.. It is a gravy train from those who work to those who don't.

                I guess you don't agree with the concept of the rich parts of a family looking after the poorer half.
                One thing to subsidise other parts of Britain, completely different to give net £10bn in handouts to French farmers, the Mafia and East Europe.
                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  Sure...works like the UN is supposed to and doesn't. Who's covering Greece's tab? 50% pays for whose infrastructure? That's a big chunk.
                  And what is the uproar over Britain leaving about? Seems like the Euro would just go on.
                  Because the UK is one of the healthier economies in Europe. Greece is on life support, Italy and Spain are sickly, France is doing poorly. The Ponzi scheme that is European socialism requires fresh infusions of cash to keep things running, and like all Ponzi schemes the system is nearing the inevitable collapse. If trends continue and greater nationalism results in conservative governments in key EU states, the entire house of cards may get re-sorted. Even the Germans can't keep Greece and Italy afloat forever.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                  • Adopting anything like a kind of legalistic advocacy about why the letter of the law doesn't actually require something of the UK is probably one of these things that might give other nations a bit of a sinking feeling about doing business with it.
                    What law, where?

                    Under English law it has been established that if a member of a club agrees to some future expenditure but then decides to leave the club, he is not beholden to pay the fees that he had agreed to as a member.

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                    • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                      Meaning you are somehow unaware of the conditions under which that occured, or what costs it entailed for Germany when it did.
                      You appear to have severe step-Fatherland issues

                      Germany - the biggest debt defaulter in world history - benefited from default by enabling Hitler and then their post-war economic recovery,

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                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        "Jihad"? Are you now saying that Muslims are controlling the British government?
                        Definition of jihad

                        1: a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty; also : a personal struggle in devotion to Islam especially involving spiritual discipline
                        2: a crusade for a principle or belief

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                        • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                          Meaning you are somehow unaware of the conditions under which that occured, or what costs it entailed for Germany when it did.

                          Which I can only gather is somehow a precondition for the UK being easy like this about the possible implications.
                          http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-769703.html

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                          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post





                            What law, where?

                            Under English law it has been established that if a member of a club agrees to some future expenditure but then decides to leave the club, he is not beholden to pay the fees that he had agreed to as a member.
                            In this case English laws doesn't mean fiddle and relating the EU to some gentlemens club doesn't float.

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                            • I think the Greece loan issue was really badly handled by the Eurozone. I'm not sure what kind of problems it would have caused by IMHO it would have been better just to let the banks & bankers who made those risky loans to the Greece to pay for their financial speculations & gambling. After all giving the bloody loans in the first place without any regards to the Greece's ability to pay them was moronic - now they just primarily walked away without problems. Which creates a horrible precedent where financial speculation turns risk-free as government bails out those who fail - as the taxpayers end up footing the bill. Only good thing to result from the mess was the more tighter regulation of the finance business. That is not to say that Greece ought to have had all of its debts just forgiven straightaway either - not without restructuring the system which had caused the need for the loans in the first place.
                              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post


                                But, but, but the nasty French help us bigly in our war of independence. With out that help we most likely would have lost.


                                https://qz.com/290183/in-2014-countr...world-war-one/

                                What did the UK get for putting their loans to France in limbo?* They were more than France owed the US and a lot more than the UK owed the US.

                                *A continental sense of entitlement to British money I expect

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