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  • A collection of Britsh (and some other) cover pages here :

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ing-parliament
    Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

    Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

      If the EU supporting MPs don’t like it then they can always try a VONC, if they have the guts.
      #1 No deal opposant MP are not all EU supporter. Actually No deal MP supporter are a minority mostly from ERG.

      #2 Proroguation prohibit VONC or any other action including passing Bill and Act. That's precisely the constitutional issue.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Metryll View Post

        #1 No deal opposant MP are not all EU supporter. Actually No deal MP supporter are a minority mostly from ERG.

        #2 Proroguation prohibit VONC or any other action including passing Bill and Act. That's precisely the constitutional issue.
        1. On the contrary government policy is to seek an acceptable deal but if that is not possible by the end of October then leave anyway. It has been over three years since the referendum. If an acceptable deal cannot be agreed by 31st October it never will be thus those MPs whining about no deal are all against the 52%.

        2. They have next week to initiate a vote of no confidence but as I said the Remainers haven’t the guts to do it. They know Boris has the support of the people and thus would probably win an election.
        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

        Comment


        • Kinda interesting actually that there is such a tool in the UK as proroguing parliament. I mean here it is possible for the president to dissolve the parliament for early elections on an explicit request from the PM but only after the president has heard all parliamentary groups as well as the other actors (i.e. judiciary) on the matter, even then the president may just refuse - and there is nothing the PM can do about that. Also even after that it is up to the parliament to decide when exactly (prior to the new election) they decide to stop working. And even after that the speaker can decide to recall the parliament if (s)he so chooses (and it would still be able to legislate or use vonc) at any point prior to the newly elected parliament stepping in. So it is impossible for the PM to use it to override the parliament.
          It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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          • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
            "A very British Coup" was the title of my morning paper here.

            But they agree with Surrey here that the idea is to provoke elections, which Johnson appears confident of winning.

            Hard to imagine, I'd like to see a politician, with the King in tow, try to prevent parliament from gathering here, he best bring an army of several million or there would be blood on the senate floor,


            but to each his own

            Boris is essentially saying to his opponents ‘come ahead if you think you’re hard enough’.
            So fat it appears the Remainers aren’t.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
              Boris is essentially saying to his opponents ‘come ahead if you think you’re hard enough’.
              So fat it appears the Remainers aren’t.
              I'm not quite sure if it is quite that simplistic... I mean the UK has been (sort of a change now maybe?) two party thing and the alternative to Alexander de Pfellel is pretty much just Corbyn... Who also wants to Brexit (party behind him might not fully agree). So kind of seems like there is no option for remaining - only choosing between flavors of leaving even with VONC. Or what would you say?
              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                Kinda interesting actually that there is such a tool in the UK as proroguing parliament. I mean here it is possible for the president to dissolve the parliament for early elections on an explicit request from the PM but only after the president has heard all parliamentary groups as well as the other actors (i.e. judiciary) on the matter, even then the president may just refuse - and there is nothing the PM can do about that. Also even after that it is up to the parliament to decide when exactly (prior to the new election) they decide to stop working. And even after that the speaker can decide to recall the parliament if (s)he so chooses (and it would still be able to legislate or use vonc) at any point prior to the newly elected parliament stepping in. So it is impossible for the PM to use it to override the parliament.
                Lizzie is an unelected Head of State so she won't go against the wishes of the Prime Minister and rightly so.
                "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                Comment


                • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                  Lizzie is an unelected Head of State so she won't go against the wishes of the Prime Minister and rightly so.
                  The particular thing about the British situation is ofcourse that the PM is also unelected, or at least not supported by a parliamentary majority…

                  So who (or what) actually holds sovereignty in Britain atm ?

                  Seems this situation has gone beyond Brexit…..

                  https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/what-is-sovereignty/

                  In the case of the UK, we also have the idea of parliamentary sovereignty, which holds that Parliament is the highest source of authority to make laws without restriction.
                  Last edited by Snowygerry; 29 Aug 19, 05:07.
                  Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                  Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                    Regardless the increase in market price would not help the UK fishermen but would actually increase profitability of the EU (and Norwegian & Icelandic) fish in the EU markets.
                    That's the spirit Now the UK can not GAS about stopping EU fishing in UK waters.

                    Since despite of your beliefs the fishing is not a closed market. Which means the cost increase in the UK fish will translate into lower profitability in the UK fish industry. Which means either lower profits or less fishermen.
                    There are a very limited number of suppliers. And global catch is declining. UK waters have a greater variety of species than the Norwegian or Icelandic waters. Indeed the UK is richer in some of the more valuable stocks - such as sole - which are currently mostly caught by the French and Dutch.
                    The UK imports quite a bit of fish from the EU - much of it fished from our own seas.
                    The UK will also find it a lot easier to find more profitable export markets than the EU will to find cheaper fish.


                    Have you ever stopped for a moment and wondered why the Norwegians have that fishing agreement with the EU? If anything that you wrote were true then they would benefit far more from not having that deal in place. Yet they do. Does it mean that Norwegians do not know what they are doing or that you do not know what you are saying?
                    D'uh! Have you not figured out that Norway, Iceland, Greenland and the Faeroes are not in the EU because of the CFP?

                    Comment


                    • And there come the fish - I'm off for lunch
                      Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                      Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                        There are a very limited number of suppliers. And global catch is declining. UK waters have a greater variety of species than the Norwegian or Icelandic waters. Indeed the UK is richer in some of the more valuable stocks - such as sole - which are currently mostly caught by the French and Dutch.
                        Because global catch is declining and that fishing as an industry may start (in fact that has already started) to get rather bad reputation for scouring the seas is the reason for the indoors fish farming projects and initiatives - which are intended to replace fishing altogether (in the end that is). Pretty much how raising livestock replaced hunting. I thought that part was too obvious to go through - again.
                        The UK imports quite a bit of fish from the EU - much of it fished from our own seas.
                        The UK will also find it a lot easier to find more profitable export markets than the EU will to find cheaper fish.
                        So you are saying that the UK without trading agreements (or if any they are rolled over, i.e. equal to) the EU trade agreements would find it easy to sell more fish elsewhere? Eternal optimist i see. Reality might be somewhat different from that. Additionally the EU has often included sort of most favorable nation clause to the trade agreements it has made so it is likely impossible for the UK to get better deals from those countries than what the EU already has (since the EU would simply get the same improved deal for free) and what the UK currently enjoys as an EU member state.
                        D'uh! Have you not figured out that Norway, Iceland, Greenland and the Faeroes are not in the EU because of the CFP?
                        Not in the CFP perhaps but they have agreements surprisingly much towards it. And that is the reason why the fishing is so profitable in Norway - because they have access to the EU markets for the cost of opening their waters (both only to an extent ofc).
                        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                          Because global catch is declining and that fishing as an industry may start (in fact that has already started) to get rather bad reputation for scouring the seas is the reason for the indoors fish farming projects and initiatives - which are intended to replace fishing altogether (in the end that is). Pretty much how raising livestock replaced hunting. I thought that part was too obvious to go through - again.
                          And what do you think the farmed fish eat genius?

                          So you are saying that the UK without trading agreements (or if any they are rolled over, i.e. equal to) the EU trade agreements would find it easy to sell more fish elsewhere?
                          Yes. UK fishermen will have more choice in what they fish and will tend towards the most profitable.

                          Oh and BTW some of the UK fish exported to the EU is for processing and reexport around the world.

                          Not in the CFP perhaps but they have agreements surprisingly much towards it. And that is the reason why the fishing is so profitable in Norway - because they have access to the EU markets for the cost of opening their waters (both only to an extent ofc).
                          Norway and Iceland are in the Single Market because of EFTA. Norwegian and Iceland fishing would be just as profitable outside the SM if the EU put import tariffs on them.
                          EU consumers would pay the bill.

                          Comment


                          • From Iain Dale https://www.iaindale.com/articles/ca...-as-we-know-it

                            "Let's try to introduce a note of calmness to the debate. Prorogation is being portrayed by those who oppose it as some sort of unusual mechanism, and a means of thwarting debate over Brexit and 'no deal'.

                            It is not unusual. Up until the last two years, Parliament has been prorogued each year in advance of a Queen's Speech. This session of Parliament has lasted nearly two and a half years, the longest, so Sky News has just reported, since the English Civil War. So we are long overdue a Queen's Speech, and quite understandably a new prime minister, and effectively a new government, wants to set out its new legislative agenda.

                            If Brexit wasn't happening, no one would be uttering a murmur. But it is.

                            So does this move mean that Parliament will not be able to influence what happens? No. As Downing Street is pointing out, all this means is that three days of Parliamentary sittings will be lost in the week after the party conferences. Let me just repeat that - three days 8, 9 and 10 of October.

                            Dominic Grieve has just alleged on Sky News that Parliament is being prorogued for five weeks. Utter tosh and the sort of misleading statement which is unworthy of him. Parliament was only scheduled to be sitting for three days in that time. "It's tantamount to a coup against Parliament," he went on. For a former Attorney General to indulge in this sort of ridiculous language is utterly disgraceful. Possibly a sign that he's utterly frit and realises his bluff has been called. He and his colleagues may have met their match.

                            The Government has set out a firm timetable in a letter to Conservative MPs which indicates that if a withdrawal agreement has been reached it would be debated and voted on on 21 and 22 October.

                            If the Government were committing as The Speaker has just said "a constitutional outrage", they would be proroguing Parliament until November 1. If that happened there really would be grounds for complaint. It isn't, so there really aren't.

                            What amuses me greatly in this debate are the howls of outrage from Remainers in all parties who think it is disgraceful that the government is using parliamentary means to give effect to its policies, and yet they are quite happy themselves to use those very same means to thwart them. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, you might suppose."

                            Comment


                            • So we are long overdue a Queen's Speech, and quite understandably a new prime minister, and effectively a new government, wants to set out its new legislative agenda. So we are long overdue a Queen's Speech, and quite understandably a new prime minister, and effectively a new government, wants to set out its new legislative agenda.
                              How can you set a new "legislative agenda" without a majority ?

                              What I don't know is whether there is a mechanism for Parliament to overturn the prorogation.
                              Well of course - MPs just go to parliament and vote.

                              They elect a chairman, and he announces parliament is now in session.

                              What happens now? Not a clue.
                              That's obvious yes
                              Last edited by Snowygerry; 29 Aug 19, 07:25.
                              Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                              Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                                How can you set a new "legislative agenda" without a majority ?
                                Somehow beginning to look like some kind of France-1958 situation. But no de Gaulle to turn to, to draft a new constitution?

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