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  • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    or like our US American friends like to say "**** or get off the pot..."
    AT the moment all their **** is being used to speak with so they have none left for the substantive matter of the pot.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
      While Michael Gove’s Cabinet Office is focused on No Deal planning domestically, Stephen Barclay’s DExEU is laying the groundwork for negotiations to reopen in four weeks’ time.
      The groundwork ? They've been negotiating since 2015 ?

      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...king-tqftd2vhk

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Barclay

      Barclay served as Lord Commissioner of the Treasury from 2016 to 2017 and Economic Secretary to the Treasury from 2017 until 2018. After the January 2018 cabinet reshuffle, he became Minister of State at the Department of Health and Social Care; Barclay was appointed Brexit Secretary in November that year following the resignation of Dominic Raab.
      Just leave, you're running in circles.
      Last edited by Snowygerry; 26 Aug 19, 03:52.
      Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

      Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

      Comment


      • This is a long but very informative piece about the link between the Good Friday Agreement, the Withdrawal Agreement and the European Court (and Convention) of Human Rights.
        When the Chief Constable of the PSNI George Hamilton described the European Convention of Human Rights in the following manner "I actually perceive it is as a tool, as a framework, as an instrument of upholding fundamental rights and freedoms that are actually, never mind the decision making model for me as a police officer, it protects me and my family and my community and I think that is something that needs to be cherished." then maybe the UK government needs to listen.
        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

        Comment


        • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
          This is a long but very informative piece about the link between the Good Friday Agreement, the Withdrawal Agreement and the European Court (and Convention) of Human Rights.
          When the Chief Constable of the PSNI George Hamilton described the European Convention of Human Rights in the following manner "I actually perceive it is as a tool, as a framework, as an instrument of upholding fundamental rights and freedoms that are actually, never mind the decision making model for me as a police officer, it protects me and my family and my community and I think that is something that needs to be cherished." then maybe the UK government needs to listen.
          The European Court of Human Rights is not part of the EU.

          Even Russia is a member though I don’t imagine Putin takes much notice of its utterances.
          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

            The European Court of Human Rights is not part of the EU.

            Even Russia is a member though I don’t imagine Putin takes much notice of its utterances.
            The Brexiteer high-Tories who have orchestrated the entire Brexit project and sold the notion that the EU is to blame for the woes of the simple minded also want to leave the ECJ and not be bound by the rulings of the ECHR. If you are a memebr of the EU you must be bound by its rulings. If you are not then you don't.
            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

            Comment


            • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

              The Brexiteer high-Tories who have orchestrated the entire Brexit project and sold the notion that the EU is to blame for the woes of the simple minded also want to leave the ECJ and not be bound by the rulings of the ECHR. If you are a memebr of the EU you must be bound by its rulings. If you are not then you don't.
              Again the view that ordinary people are simple minded and too stupid to vote.

              All members of the ECHR are in theory bound by its decisions but like every international court how those decisions are implemented is another matter.
              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                The main point which you do not seem to be understanding is that after adding in lack of premium price (since due to sanitary checks the UK fish will not be fresh), addition of tariffs & customs, addition of other non-tariff barriers will make the UK fish noncompetitive. It is not 'sellers market' - it is an open market which means the main beneficiaries will be the Icelanders and Norwegians.
                And they can provide 1 million tons of extra fish a year? Plus the types of fish not even found in their waters?

                An 'open' market in fish is just a fantasy.

                Very unlikely. The UK fishing industry will need to export to the EU just to survive - without having privileged access the margins for the UK industries will shrink from what they currently are even if the costs in the EU would slightly rise.
                The expanded UK fishing industry will sell their fish to wherever they make the biggest profits.

                Comment


                • Not the fish again - please

                  Fishing accounts for maybe 1% of your economy ?

                  Edit,

                  0.1% apparently :

                  Brexit: Why is everyone talking about fishing?
                  The leather goods industry is slightly larger - and given its reliance on European markets, could be as significantly affected by Brexit as fishing. Equally the travel agency industry is also watching political proceedings with interest, and is worth significantly more in GVA.
                  And yet, we don't hear backbench MPs fretting about the future of woodworking, or writing to the prime minister to demand a good deal for tanners. We don't even hear as regularly about the financial services industry, which is worth £119bn(or 6.5% of economic output).
                  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland...itics-46372153
                  Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                  Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                    And in relation to that, one of the UK's problems is that Brexit isn't even the main concern for the rest of the EU. It's more of a distraction, of rather lesser importance than some other things.
                    Yes, you must all be getting really excited about the long awaited accession to the EU of the Glorious Republic of North Macedonia and the venerable Grand Duchy of Ruritania!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                      Not the fish again - please

                      Fishing accounts for maybe 1% of your economy ?
                      Yeah, so don't ****ing steal it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                        Yeah, so don't ****ing steal it.
                        Only 52% of your fish supported Brexit, they will be thrown back, the others are considered remain fish




                        Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                        Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                          Only 52% of your fish supported Brexit, they will be thrown back, the others are considered remain fish



                          Most of the fish were in fact born outside the UK territorial waters and as such are illegals. They will have to leave in October, reducing the Uk's total fish stock.
                          "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                          validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                          "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                            And they can provide 1 million tons of extra fish a year? Plus the types of fish not even found in their waters?
                            Maybe they can't. The problem for the UK is that the UK is not going to reap any profit from it. Lack of premium price (because of sanitary checks the fish can not be sold to the EU markets fresh), addition of costs due to customs, tariffs and handling of other non-tariff barriers. All this means that the fish from the UK will be more expensive in the EU. But that increase in cost won't translate into increase of profits for the fishermen or the fishing industry in the UK. In fact it is very likely (almost certain) that the increase in the cost of the UK fish is likely to cause reduction in that profit since to be competitive with the EU (and other) fishermen the UK fishermen need to sell their fish at lower price since after the Brexit the UK will be outside of the single market. You are forgetting that the price increase (and the resulting reduction in profitability) is not uniform but only affects the UK products - not fish in general.
                            An 'open' market in fish is just a fantasy.

                            It is not a fantasy. The reason is there are more actors in that market so it can not per definition be considered closed.
                            The expanded UK fishing industry will sell their fish to wherever they make the biggest profits.
                            Certainly - and that is the root of the problem for your own argument. Problem is that the profits will be smaller than what they would have been in the EU single market. The same market forces (supply & demand) which you place your trust on dictate exactly that. And sure like I said the UK fish will be more expensive in the EU and hence less competitive in the EU markets and only way for the UK to 'combat' that is the further reduce their own profit margins. Since it is not a closed market (and due to Brexit not even a protected one either).

                            This is what i have tried in vain to explain to you. After the Brexit the UK fishermen will no longer enjoy the protection of the EU markets, they will no longer have similar access to the EU markets, and so on. So no matter how it is twisted and turned the only real winners in this fishy business seem to be Norwegians and Icelanders.
                            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                              Maybe they can't. The problem for the UK is that the UK is not going to reap any profit from it. Lack of premium price (because of sanitary checks the fish can not be sold to the EU markets fresh), addition of costs due to customs, tariffs and handling of other non-tariff barriers. All this means that the fish from the UK will be more expensive in the EU. But that increase in cost won't translate into increase of profits for the fishermen or the fishing industry in the UK. In fact it is very likely (almost certain) that the increase in the cost of the UK fish is likely to cause reduction in that profit since to be competitive with the EU (and other) fishermen the UK fishermen need to sell their fish at lower price since after the Brexit the UK will be outside of the single market. You are forgetting that the price increase (and the resulting reduction in profitability) is not uniform but only affects the UK products - not fish in general.


                              It is not a fantasy. The reason is there are more actors in that market so it can not per definition be considered closed.

                              Certainly - and that is the root of the problem for your own argument. Problem is that the profits will be smaller than what they would have been in the EU single market. The same market forces (supply & demand) which you place your trust on dictate exactly that. And sure like I said the UK fish will be more expensive in the EU and hence less competitive in the EU markets and only way for the UK to 'combat' that is the further reduce their own profit margins. Since it is not a closed market (and due to Brexit not even a protected one either).

                              This is what i have tried in vain to explain to you. After the Brexit the UK fishermen will no longer enjoy the protection of the EU markets, they will no longer have similar access to the EU markets, and so on. So no matter how it is twisted and turned the only real winners in this fishy business seem to be Norwegians and Icelanders.
                              A sanitary check that deteriorates fish quality would somewhat of an oxymoron....

                              Mea culpa for being somewhat facetious in this long running topic. I discussed this with fish biologist, and a boundary war on cod would be counter productive for all.

                              Cod range , and in Canada, the Flemish cap was skimmed to intercept cod migrating to deep water breeding grounds in the early 1990's.

                              The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by marktwain View Post
                                A sanitary check that deteriorates fish quality would somewhat of an oxymoron....
                                Yes and no. When the UK leaves it is longer part of the single market or under the ECJ - which means regulations and/or standards in the UK can not be considered valid in the EU without additional agreements. Hence the need for checks which the single market had eliminated. So yes it is somewhat of an oxymoron when it might (and almost certainly will) deteriorate quality but no in a sense that without the single market the standards are no longer valid so quality & validity can no longer be just assumed.
                                Mea culpa for being somewhat facetious in this long running topic. I discussed this with fish biologist, and a boundary war on cod would be counter productive for all.
                                I fully agree. But it might be the political outcome of the Brexit even if it would be counter productive to every one involved.
                                It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                                Comment

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