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  • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post

    No they won't. If the UK simply renegs on already agreed expenditures as a full member of the EU, which is what asking for this compensation as the UK leaves is about, then clearly the EU will have to shoulder it.
    No, it won't be reneging on the debts. They are conditional on a deal being agreed.

    What will be noticed elsewhere as well, is that the UK is prone to welshing on its debts. It might feel good if making a point of finding ways to "stick it to the EU", but third parties that don't care about whether the UK feels hard done by by the EU or not are also likely to notice, and conclude that the UK is in some ways a risky proposition.
    Funny that Germany defaulted on its (enormous) debts FOUR times in the 20th Century - they seem to be doing alright!

    Which might not be what the UK wants if it's supposed to head out of the High Seas of unregulated international trade. At least not if the UK business model is supposed to be something other than piracy and swindle.
    China seems to be doing alright!

    It is pretty much only the EU who claims a monopoly on regulations. The farking hypocrites.

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    • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

      Without a deal the 'debt' to the EU will become like the debts of WWI - in limbo, neither written off nor serviced.

      Perhaps we should all start servicing those debts as well
      That would certainly throw a wrench in the machinery. France owes the USA for two world wars, and German nearly as much, not to mention the trillion or so dollars they owe for the seized property of the Jewish people, which Israel still holds active.

      Given the low opinion the US voters have of Germany, and Germany's current state of disarmament, this might be the time to dust off the claims and start collecting. Or we could just act on precedent and occupy the Rhineland until us and Israel are paid up, and our ally the UK as well.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post

        No they won't. If the UK simply renegs on already agreed expenditures as a full member of the EU, which is what asking for this compensation as the UK leaves is about, then clearly the EU will have to shoulder it.

        What will be noticed elsewhere as well, is that the UK is prone to welshing on its debts. It might feel good if making a point of finding ways to "stick it to the EU", but third parties that don't care about whether the UK feels hard done by by the EU or not are also likely to notice, and conclude that the UK is in some ways a risky proposition. Which might not be what the UK wants if it's supposed to head out of the High Seas of unregulated international trade. At least not if the UK business model is supposed to be something other than piracy and swindle.
        The exit bill is a political agreement, not a legal one. Until the final withdrawal agreement is made it has no legal status. Some of it actually includes the standard UK contributions for 19/20 and 20/21 which the UK would pay under the transition period However if there is no deal and no transition period then it would not be due. It also assumes that the UK will receive funding from the EU for various EU programs during the period. Again no deal then no payment.





        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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        • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

          That would certainly throw a wrench in the machinery. France owes the USA for two world wars,
          Well the WWI debt is only about 4 $ billion dollars.

          With compound interest at 5% over 100 years that would be about $ 526,005,031,385.21 now.


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          • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

            France owes the USA for two world wars,
            Didn't the French equip the US in WW1?
            Like the LL claims, a 'we saved your derrier' in WW1?

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            • Originally posted by m kenny View Post
              Didn't the French equip the US in WW1?
              Like the LL claims, a 'we saved your derrier' in WW1?


              But, but, but the nasty French help us bigly in our war of independence. With out that help we most likely would have lost.


              https://qz.com/290183/in-2014-countr...world-war-one/
              Last edited by Half Pint John; 28 Aug 18, 14:33.
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                No, it won't be reneging on the debts. They are conditional on a deal being agreed.



                Funny that Germany defaulted on its (enormous) debts FOUR times in the 20th Century - they seem to be doing alright!
                Meaning you are somehow unaware of the conditions under which that occured, or what costs it entailed for Germany when it did.

                Which I can only gather is somehow a precondition for the UK being easy like this about the possible implications.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                  The exit bill is a political agreement, not a legal one. Until the final withdrawal agreement is made it has no legal status. Some of it actually includes the standard UK contributions for 19/20 and 20/21 which the UK would pay under the transition period However if there is no deal and no transition period then it would not be due. It also assumes that the UK will receive funding from the EU for various EU programs during the period. Again no deal then no payment.




                  Well that observation on the legal aspect is of course true. It is also a bit beside the point. If the UK is supposed to strike out on its own (on WTO rules or whatever) it will not be judged on whether it is keen to uphold the letter of some law, but on much less regulated forms of interaction where there are more general questions about the UK's dependability.

                  Adopting anything like a kind of legalistic advocacy about why the letter of the law doesn't actually require something of the UK is probably one of these things that might give other nations a bit of a sinking feeling about doing business with it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post

                    Well that observation on the legal aspect is of course true. It is also a bit beside the point. If the UK is supposed to strike out on its own (on WTO rules or whatever) it will not be judged on whether it is keen to uphold the letter of some law, but on much less regulated forms of interaction where there are more general questions about the UK's dependability.

                    Adopting anything like a kind of legalistic advocacy about why the letter of the law doesn't actually require something of the UK is probably one of these things that might give other nations a bit of a sinking feeling about doing business with it.


                    next you will be accusing us of burning Joan of Arc on Mount St. Helena.....like the French do.

                    The payment was conditional on getting something in return. We believe in rule of law. If there is no legal agreement we are no bound.
                    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                      The payment was conditional on getting something in return. We believe in rule of law. If there is no legal agreement we are no bound.
                      That gets you an orderly exit and with it in all likelihood also transition period until 12/2020 - assuming UK can finally decide what level of cooperation it wants without any sort of cherry picking. You can't seriously expect the EU to change its core rules just because they are inconvenient to a non-member state?
                      It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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                      • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                        . You can't seriously expect the EU to change its core rules just because they are inconvenient to a non-member state?
                        Err yes they do. Bong-eyed looney Farage and his ilk are conviNced 'Europe' will grant the UK any terms it wants as long they hang tough. I can not emphasise too strongly how much they are utterly convinced that the UK is the powerhouse of the EU. That the UK alone is financing the entire EU and that the UK Financial Services are vital to the success of the EU. They have convinced themselves they are so exceptional that it would be madness for the EU not to accede to every UK demand.
                        The recent revelations the Arron Banks took secret Russian money for the Brexit cause shows how far they are prepared to debase themselves in their pursuit of Jihad.


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                        • Originally posted by m kenny View Post
                          Err yes they do. Bong-eyed looney Farage and his ilk are conviNced 'Europe' will grant the UK any terms it wants as long they hang tough. I can not emphasise too strongly how much they are utterly convinced that the UK is the powerhouse of the EU. That the UK alone is financing the entire EU and that the UK Financial Services are vital to the success of the EU. They have convinced themselves they are so exceptional that it would be madness for the EU not to accede to every UK demand.
                          The recent revelations the Arron Banks took secret Russian money for the Brexit cause shows how far they are prepared to debase themselves in their pursuit of Jihad.

                          "Jihad"? Are you now saying that Muslims are controlling the British government?
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • Instead of the constant flame wars, maybe one of you can break down the pros and cons/major points of the proposed Brexit? Start with who is the major financial power within the EU and where are the spending their money?
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                            • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                              That gets you an orderly exit and with it in all likelihood also transition period until 12/2020 - assuming UK can finally decide what level of cooperation it wants without any sort of cherry picking. You can't seriously expect the EU to change its core rules just because they are inconvenient to a non-member state?
                              We don't. A similar arrangement to that with Canada would be fine. ALL agreements between the EU and external countries involve cherry picking.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Instead of the constant flame wars, maybe one of you can break down the pros and cons/major points of the proposed Brexit? Start with who is the major financial power within the EU and where are the spending their money?
                                That really depends on what kind of Brexit the UK tries to aim for - of the proposed options that is. Or what did you refer to with 'the proposed Brexit'? And i think you have somewhat misunderstood the structure of the EU with the second part of your question. EU countries contribute to the EU budget but they have their own budgets as well. The EU budget is primarily used for (i) running the EU structures (5% or so), (ii) growth (in essence trying to bring all of the EU to the even level - in the end) and infrastructure (around 50%), (iii) natural resources (mainly agriculture & fisheries) and environment (over 40%).
                                It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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