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  • #46
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    У верблюдов есть горбы. Я не. У вас тоже нет горбов. I just can't believe that in a country of some 140-plus million that no effective opposition to Putin can be mounted, even after Putin's been in office for better than fifteen years. It defies all experience in modern mass-participatory states, as well as credulity.
    You should believe. Or follow Russian politics for some time and understand it by yourself. In short, the liberals are hated and despised by a large part of population thanks to 90's and their love for US. Communists cannot understand what's going on and are living in the past. Nationalsts are completely nuts. Putin promoted himself as an universal figure which can please to different groups of society.

    But speaking about this, it's the same in US. One party with two heads doesn't count as opposition.

    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    If only the graves of Kolyma could speak . . . .

    But if it wasn't "toppled," then where is Bolshevism today? Is Russia still a one-party state?
    It disappeared for internal reasons. Russia is pretty much an one-party state.

    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    Capitalism is even younger than socialism, as far as -ism's go. Can you think of a capitalist system that's destroyed itself?
    Capitalism is here for several centuries and it's very busy to destroy itself.


    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    Is Scandinavia really socialist, as in are the means of production owned by the government or some other collective body? the only socialist societies that I can think of -- apart from the Amish and the Hasidim -- are to be found in Cuba and North Korea. Cuba has had her share of successes, to be sure, but I'd hardly call her a success story, not when people risk drowning to escape.
    Some means are owner by government. In many countries some stuff is owned by government.

    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    And there you have it, folks: the non-denial denial of the century . . . . Kinda like when responding to the Polish government's inquiries about the fate of their officers captured in 1940, Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria told them that "they met with an unfortunate accident."
    It's a logical conclusion of a long way. There were the promises about the non-expansion of NATO, invasion of Iraq for imaginary WMDs, recognition of Kosovo, bombing of Libya. So Putin simply decided to push this stuff to the end.


    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    You're right: GULAG didn't cremate its victims.
    GULAG is nothing compared to US today.
    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
      Still has a way to go before he's up there with that other democratic luminary, Bashar al Assad.
      What is so problematic with Bashar al Assad, he does not seem to be so different, with other Dictators the US has on its payroll ?

      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
      In '94 the Russian Federation signed the Budapest Memorandum recognizing Ukraine's independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity.
      Until the US staged the Color Revolution Maidan Putch. With an investment of just $5 Billion. In this Redacted Tonight show (like SNL) Diane Feinstein admids helping with this amount to support "democratic changes". Just watch about 1/3rd into the clips:


      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

      In 2014, Russian Federation forces invaded Ukraine, separating Crimea from Ukraine.
      Evidence to this effect, that Russian military formations invaded Ukraine, have not been produced to this day.

      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
      Later that same year, Russian Federation annexed Crimea. By any standard, that's the waging of an aggressive war. Who was Russia's Commander-in-Chief?
      There was a democratic election referendum, where the people of the Ukraine overhelmingly voted for joining Russia.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xURFKxliGh8
       

      Comment


      • #48
        [QUOTE=slick_miester;n5048500]

        And therein lies the paradox of our times. When Russia represented the "workers' and peasants' state," the little lefty crowd couldn't get enough of them.
        /QUOTE]

        That kind of tranquility is just a liberal fantasy.

        [QUOTE=slick_miester;n5048500]
        The New York Times regurgitated their propaganda unedited.
        /QUOTE]



        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        The Clintons' marched in demonstrations organized by COMINTERN's successors.


        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

        Barack Obama palled around with their clandestine agents. All the things that Putin is now accused of doing, trying to influence other countries' elections and what not, he learned at KGB.
        Like George Herbert Bush, who worked for the CIA.


        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        The Soviets had been doing that kind of thing for decades. Up until the end of the Cold War, US liberals said nary a word. Now, all of a sudden, it's bad. For the life of me I can't understand the difference.
        Because the Neo Liberals elevated an issue. Reeks hypocracy, doesn't it ?

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

          Here comes a dumb question: why would this "alt right" have an affinity for Putin and today's Russian Federation? After all, wasn't Putin a member of the Communist Party, and a KGB colonel? Didn't Putin not too long ago characterize the Soviet Union's demise a catastrophe? Are you suggesting the the US' "alt right" is pining for things leftish?

          Or could it be that extreme right and extreme left always circle 'round and meet in the end?

          This is why the "is Nazism left or right" debate is patently stupid: in the end, there's precious little of SUBSTANCE to differentiate Bolshevism from Nazism, and there really never was. They were both two sides of the same crazy and violent coin.
          Like the others, you don't know enough about Nazism to present a non-ideological view of it

          how much do you actually read about the subject? Why don't I see WW2 genius' like you posting in the subforum?

          Could it be that you are nothing but a libertarian ideologue?

          The Alt-Right , which you are ignorant of, likes Russia/Putin for its cultural aspects and perceived toughness. Trump's viewpoints are those of the Alt Right and not of other types.
          Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
          Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
          Barbarossa Derailed I & II
          Battle of Kalinin October 1941

          Comment


          • #50
            Putin like Ivan Ilyin...
            https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...ns-philosopher

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post

              The Alt-Right , which you are ignorant of, likes Russia/Putin for its cultural aspects and perceived toughness. Trump's viewpoints are those of the Alt Right and not of other types.
              Why this certitude ? Trump can as well understand that Russia can be helpful to US in a number of areas and that opposing it will lead to bad consequences.
              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post

                Like the others, you don't know enough about Nazism to present a non-ideological view of it

                how much do you actually read about the subject? Why don't I see WW2 genius' like you posting in the subforum?

                Could it be that you are nothing but a libertarian ideologue?

                The Alt-Right , which you are ignorant of, likes Russia/Putin for its cultural aspects and perceived toughness. Trump's viewpoints are those of the Alt Right and not of other types.
                Wow. I don't know if you realize this, but you come across as incredibly condescending. Is that intentional?

                One of Putin's duties as a KGB colonel was to foment dissent and subversion in Western countries. For decades COMINTERN, GPU, NKVD, KGB, engaged in "active measures": propaganda campaigns, utilizing friendly Western outlets, to disseminate material to Western populations, for the purpose of destabilizing their governments. Towards that end Soviet propaganda advanced the causes of numerous post-colonial polities, nationalistic movements, oppressed minorities, et al: exactly the kinds of people that the alt-right claims to hate. For example, the anti-Vietnam War protests attended by Bill and Hillary Clinton during his time at Oxford University likely were "active measures" clandestinely organized by KGB agents. What's in there for the alt-right to like?

                http://www.businessinsider.com/vladi...kgb-spy-2017-9
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures
                https://www.globalsecurity.org/intel...kgb-su0523.htm
                https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-1556769.html
                https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004LLIPVA...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

                "WW2" you say? Before WW2, after WW2, the Cold War: these activities go far beyond WW2, to the point that your quip constitutes a non-sequitur. This has nothing to do with ideology. It has everything to do with KGB activities on behalf of those that the alt-right view as untermenschen in their efforts to undermine, subvert, and weaken a White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestant United States. What about any of that is there for any kind of "rightist" -- alt or otherwise -- to approve of? If these alt-right types can find any common ground with a Putin, it can only be because they've fallen for his self-produced press-clippings depicting him as a strong man, as a guy who can score eight goals against NHL opposition. In short, the alt-right is bereft not only of ideology and and historicity, they're just flat-out chumps. On a sliding scale of things, the alt-right's dumber than Klansmen.
                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                  Why this certitude ? Trump can as well understand that Russia can be helpful to US in a number of areas and that opposing it will lead to bad consequences.
                  helpful in what and why in your opinion?

                  Trump is "educated" by alt right sources and ideologues. Remember Bannon and Flynn?

                  The Alt Right POV is that Western civilization is degenerating and only Russia isn't. Trump's viewpoint on NATO is inline with the alt right.
                  Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                  Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                  Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                  Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                    One of Putin's duties as a KGB colonel was to foment dissent and subversion in Western countries.
                    Please remind me, of what George Herbert Bush's job description was as a Director of the CIA ?

                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                    For decades COMINTERN, GPU, NKVD, KGB, engaged in "active measures": propaganda campaigns, utilizing friendly Western outlets, to disseminate material to Western populations, for the purpose of destabilizing their governments.
                    So it was done before Putin ?


                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                    Towards that end Soviet propaganda advanced the causes of numerous post-colonial polities, nationalistic movements, oppressed minorities,
                    Please remind me how the US meddled in South America and Africa.

                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                    et al: exactly the kinds of people that the alt-right claims to hate. For example, the anti-Vietnam War protests attended by Bill and Hillary Clinton during his time at Oxford University likely were "active measures" clandestinely organized by KGB agents. What's in there for the alt-right to like?
                    And now they scream impeachment, when Trump tries to normalize relations to Russia.

                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                    "WW2" you say? Before WW2, after WW2, the Cold War: these activities go far beyond WW2, to the point that your quip constitutes a non-sequitur. This has nothing to do with ideology. It has everything to do with KGB activities on behalf of those that the alt-right view as untermenschen in their efforts to undermine, subvert, and weaken a White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestant United States. What about any of that is there for any kind of "rightist" -- alt or otherwise -- to approve of? If these alt-right types can find any common ground with a Putin, it can only be because they've fallen for his self-produced press-clippings depicting him as a strong man, as a guy who can score eight goals against NHL opposition. In short, the alt-right is bereft not only of ideology and and historicity, they're just flat-out chumps. On a sliding scale of things, the alt-right's dumber than Klansmen.
                    He's right, you should really brush up your knowledge before posting nonsense. Save us a lot of time to keep correcting you.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post

                      helpful in what and why in your opinion?

                      Trump is "educated" by alt right sources and ideologues. Remember Bannon and Flynn?

                      The Alt Right POV is that Western civilization is degenerating and only Russia isn't. Trump's viewpoint on NATO is inline with the alt right.
                      Helpful with Iran in Syria. Helpful with NATO. Helpful with China.

                      Trump like to talk about being a "deal-maker". Putin is exactly a person with who you can make a deal. He demonstrated it in multiple occasions and he is someone very predictible to deal with.
                      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Konzev View Post
                        Please remind me, of what George Herbert Bush's job description was as a Director of the CIA ?
                        His name is George Herbert Walker Bush, and he was not a career CIA officer: he was appointed Director of Central Intelligence in 1976 by then-Pres Gerald Ford, and served for twelve months. Ford's interest in Bush wasn't his experience within the intelligence community -- Bush had none prior to his appointment -- but Bush's contacts within the Congress, the backdrop being the Church Committee hearings of the 1970s.

                        https://www.cia.gov/news-information...elligence.html

                        Compare that to Vladimir Putin, who was commissioned a Jr Lieutenant of the KGB in 1975, rose through the ranks to the level of Colonel, and left the "Committee" when the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. Of Vladimir Putin or Geo HW Bush, which of the two can be accurately described as a "career intelligence officer," and which can not?


                        Originally posted by Konzev View Post
                        So [active measures were] done before Putin ?
                        Before Putin, during Putin, after Putin . . . .

                        Originally posted by Konzev View Post
                        Please remind me how the US meddled in South America and Africa.
                        Within the context of the post to which I was replying, your observation is irrelevant: I was noting that the causes advanced by the KGB during the Cold War were exactly the causes feared and loathed by the milieu described as "alt-right." At no point has the alt-right ever advocating on behalf of brown-skinned people trying to fight off American imperialism -- but Putin and his employers were, hence my confusion at how the alt-right can look favorably on Putin today.

                        But thanks for the time-wasting non-sequitur.

                        Originally posted by Konzev View Post
                        And now they scream impeachment, when Trump tries to normalize relations to Russia.
                        Who? The alt-right, or today's Democratic opposition, which not too awful long ago were viewed as "useful idiots" by the old guys ensconced in in the Lubyanka?

                        Originally posted by Konzev View Post
                        He's right, you should really brush up your knowledge before posting nonsense. Save us a lot of time to keep correcting you.
                        Pray tell, oh omniscient one, what did I get wrong?

                        On second thought, I don't care. You're not a debating foil, merely a time-bandit. Auf wiedersehen.
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                          His name is George Herbert Walker Bush, and he was not a career CIA officer: he was appointed Director of Central Intelligence in 1976 by then-Pres Gerald Ford, and served for twelve months. Ford's interest in Bush wasn't his experience within the intelligence community -- Bush had none prior to his appointment -- but Bush's contacts within the Congress, the backdrop being the Church Committee hearings of the 1970s.

                          https://www.cia.gov/news-information...elligence.html
                          How lame and naive, relying on a Government source, when in reality it was more like that:

                          "Bush's four reasons for the invasion provided sufficient justification to establish bipartisan Congressional approval and support for the invasion. However, the secrecy before initiation, the speed and success of the invasion itself, and U.S. public support for it (80% public approval)[25] did not allow Democrats to object to Bush's decision to use military force.[25] One contemporary study suggests that Bush decided to invade for domestic political reasons, citing scarce strategic reasoning for the U.S. to invade and immediately withdraw without establishing the structure to enforce the interests that Bush used to justify the invasion.[25]

                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                          Compare that to Vladimir Putin, who was commissioned a Jr Lieutenant of the KGB in 1975, rose through the ranks to the level of Colonel, and left the "Committee" when the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. Of Vladimir Putin or Geo HW Bush, which of the two can be accurately described as a "career intelligence officer," and which can not?
                          If that's Vlad's crime, keep in mind that he did not invade other countries, George H Bush had no such scrupel's.

                          ​​​​​​​
                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                          Who? The alt-right, or today's Democratic opposition, which not too awful long ago were viewed as "useful idiots" by the old guys ensconced in in the Lubyanka?
                          You may blame your Main Street Media for that.




                          Comment


                          • #58
                            ^ Are you conflating the acts of the son with his father?

                            Schmuck
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Roll your eyes, Rimshot.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post



                                The Alt-Right , which you are ignorant of, likes Russia/Putin for its cultural aspects and perceived toughness. .
                                And why should that be wrong ?

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