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  • #31
    Originally posted by Konzev View Post
    He just won the election with way over 60%.
    Actually Putin's final tally was more like 76%.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43452449

    Still has a way to go before he's up there with that other democratic luminary, Bashar al Assad.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magaz...nitor-26527422

    Originally posted by Konzev View Post
    By your definition ? Gimme a break.
    In '94 the Russian Federation signed the Budapest Memorandum recognizing Ukraine's independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budape...ity_Assurances

    In 2014, Russian Federation forces invaded Ukraine, separating Crimea from Ukraine. Later that same year, Russian Federation annexed Crimea. By any standard, that's the waging of an aggressive war. Who was Russia's Commander-in-Chief?
    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
      Trump's affinity towards the Russians/Putin is shared by the "Alt right" but not fanatical conservatives or traditional conservatives.

      That's why he's getting fire on both sides.
      Some still believe that the Cold War is still a thing. Enough so that the DoD is taking advantage of it to get more funding for pet projects, 'cuz, you know, "The Rooshins is a comin'! The Rooshin's is a comin'!"

      Of course the Left loved Russia while it was still nominally communist.

      Tuebor

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post

        Frankly speaking I don't understand people driven up the wall. Two years were enough to get accustomed to T's rough and direct manner of speech.
        One party is on its way out as a political power (and probably existence), and the other has a wing that has a deep distrust of all things Russian. Trump hasn't done anything any other president hasn't done in dealing with "recalcitrant" powers. Trump is simply more hyperbolic in his speech.

        Russia is not a threat to anybody, but small powers on its frontiers, and won't be for decades to come if ever.

        Tuebor

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Tuebor View Post
          Of course the Left loved Russia while it was still nominally communist.
          And therein lies the paradox of our times. When Russia represented the "workers' and peasants' state," the little lefty crowd couldn't get enough of them. The New York Times regurgitated their propaganda unedited. The Clintons' marched in demonstrations organized by COMINTERN's successors. Barack Obama palled around with their clandestine agents. All the things that Putin is now accused of doing, trying to influence other countries' elections and what not, he learned at KGB. The Soviets had been doing that kind of thing for decades. Up until the end of the Cold War, US liberals said nary a word. Now, all of a sudden, it's bad. For the life of me I can't understand the difference.
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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          • #35
            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

            . For the life of me I can't understand the difference.
            They lost an election.

            Tuebor

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Tuebor View Post

              They lost an election.

              Tuebor
              They forgot their own maxim:

              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                Snarky -- but you've not detailed any of Putin's democratic bona fides. By your continued dodging, I'm left to assume that he has none.

                Unless you can rectify my . . . . apprehension, it will have to stand.
                "Докажи что ты не верблюд". It's basically what are you asking. Do you know yourself what do you want ? I can present you with plenty of interviews with Putin talking about importance of democracy but I'm sure you will ignore it. So what do you want exactly ?


                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Billy to the kneecap, or ~150 grains of lead to the brain stem?
                Nope. Help of bureaucracy.


                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                No doubt saved his supporters tons in campaign spending . . . . Nevertheless, why not let the schmuck run, and get his a$$ handed to him at the polls? Would've looked even better for Putin, wouldn't you agree?
                If he registered in a wrong way why should he be allowed to run ? Otherwise Putin would be accused of letting someone run despite administrative problems. Probably it was done on purpose to present himself as a victim of Putin.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Still don't see the point.


                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                They had eight years of Obama. No doubt they'll jack up other candidates of that ilk before too long.
                They should try harder then.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Yeah. Something about being an unmitigated disaster tends to topple even the most oppressive regimes.
                There was no toppling nor it was an oppressive regime.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Unless of course it destroys itself. That is what Bolshevism did, isn't it: destroyed itself from within, rather than suffered destruction from without? Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov wrote reams on the subject, commissioned reams more from KGB researchers . . . . Come to think of it, that's what British Labour socialism did: destroyed itself. That's what Tanzania's Julius Nyerere version of socialism did too . . . . Funny that so many socialist regimes destroyed themselves, time and time and time again. Think there's a pattern at work?
                We can look at the number of capitalist regimes who destroyed themselves. You seem to forget that socialism is pretty young as an ideology. But it scored a number of successes too. Russia, France, Benelux, Scandinavia. It was the first try. Other will follow.
                There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                  In '94 the Russian Federation signed the Budapest Memorandum recognizing Ukraine's independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budape...ity_Assurances

                  In 2014, Russian Federation forces invaded Ukraine, separating Crimea from Ukraine. Later that same year, Russian Federation annexed Crimea. By any standard, that's the waging of an aggressive war. Who was Russia's Commander-in-Chief?
                  Maybe you forgot but Crimea decalred his independence from Ukraine before joining Russia. So it cannot be said that the Memorandum was violated. It was violated before, when US and Britain supported Maidan.
                  There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                    Trump's affinity towards the Russians/Putin is shared by the "Alt right" but not fanatical conservatives or traditional conservatives.

                    That's why he's getting fire on both sides.
                    Here comes a dumb question: why would this "alt right" have an affinity for Putin and today's Russian Federation? After all, wasn't Putin a member of the Communist Party, and a KGB colonel? Didn't Putin not too long ago characterize the Soviet Union's demise a catastrophe? Are you suggesting the the US' "alt right" is pining for things leftish?

                    Or could it be that extreme right and extreme left always circle 'round and meet in the end?

                    This is why the "is Nazism left or right" debate is patently stupid: in the end, there's precious little of SUBSTANCE to differentiate Bolshevism from Nazism, and there really never was. They were both two sides of the same crazy and violent coin.
                    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                      Maybe you forgot but Crimea decalred his independence from Ukraine before joining Russia. So it cannot be said that the Memorandum was violated. It was violated before, when US and Britain supported Maidan.
                      Was that before or after Spetsnaz's little putsch there?
                      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                        Was that before or after Spetsnaz's little putsch there?
                        What Spetsnaz are you talking about ? There was officially no Spetsnaz anywhere. And non-official stuff doesn't exist.
                        There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                          This is why the "is Nazism left or right" debate is patently stupid: in the end, there's precious little of SUBSTANCE to differentiate Bolshevism from Nazism, and there really never was. They were both two sides of the same crazy and violent coin.
                          They're extremly different from each other. Only liberals look at them as at same thing.
                          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                            "Докажи что ты не верблюд". It's basically what are you asking. Do you know yourself what do you want ? I can present you with plenty of interviews with Putin talking about importance of democracy but I'm sure you will ignore it. So what do you want exactly ?
                            У верблюдов есть горбы. Я не. У вас тоже нет горбов. I just can't believe that in a country of some 140-plus million that no effective opposition to Putin can be mounted, even after Putin's been in office for better than fifteen years. It defies all experience in modern mass-participatory states, as well as credulity.

                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            Nope. Help of bureaucracy.
                            Maybe a microgram of polonium from time to time . . . .

                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            If he registered in a wrong way why should he be allowed to run ? Otherwise Putin would be accused of letting someone run despite administrative problems. Probably it was done on purpose to present himself as a victim of Putin.
                            talk about going the long way 'round.

                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            Still don't see the point.
                            Вы держитесь за здравомыслие, может быть, немного сомнительно.
                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                            They should try harder then.
                            You're overlooking the basic structure of American politics: it's from the bottom up, not the top down. At the local and state level, depending on locale, there are no shortage of candidates whom you'll no doubt view as "хорошие товарищи."


                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            There was no toppling nor it was an oppressive regime.
                            If only the graves of Kolyma could speak . . . .

                            But if it wasn't "toppled," then where is Bolshevism today? Is Russia still a one-party state?

                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            We can look at the number of capitalist regimes who destroyed themselves.
                            Capitalism is even younger than socialism, as far as -ism's go. Can you think of a capitalist system that's destroyed itself?

                            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            You seem to forget that socialism is pretty young as an ideology. But it scored a number of successes too. Russia, France, Benelux, Scandinavia. It was the first try. Other will follow.
                            Is Scandinavia really socialist, as in are the means of production owned by the government or some other collective body? the only socialist societies that I can think of -- apart from the Amish and the Hasidim -- are to be found in Cuba and North Korea. Cuba has had her share of successes, to be sure, but I'd hardly call her a success story, not when people risk drowning to escape.
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                              What Spetsnaz are you talking about ? There was officially no Spetsnaz anywhere. And non-official stuff doesn't exist.
                              And there you have it, folks: the non-denial denial of the century . . . . Kinda like when responding to the Polish government's inquiries about the fate of their officers captured in 1940, Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria told them that "they met with an unfortunate accident."

                              Can I reproduce your quote again? Something that rich is too good to be forgotten.
                              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                                They're extremly different from each other. Only liberals look at them as at same thing.
                                You're right: GULAG didn't cremate its victims.
                                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                                Comment

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