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  • #16
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    Winning elections against strawmen does not democratic bona fides prove. By that standard, Hitler was a democrat. Stalin was a democrat. Robert Mugabe was a democrat.

    That's lame, even by your standards. Try again. What in Putin's record proves him to be a believer in and an adherent to the righteousness of popular governance?



    I submit that the "normal exercise of the functions" are in fact legalized intimidation and legalized murder: the use of armed force for the compulsion of various parties to the government's will, and/or the liquidation of parties deemed too dangerous or too abhorrent to allow in continued circulation. When it's done by a street gang it's a crime. When it's done by a government, it's statecraft. Same action, different standard of judgement. Otherwise it's identical. It's brute force, nothing more.
    Statecraft is the normal thing in international politics , besides ;what you are describing are the procédés of Deep state .

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Emtos View Post
      You should first prove that he won elections against strawmen. Hitler - if you brought him here - secured a large number of votes during his election.
      His first electoral win -- 1932 -- was legit. By Spring of '33, the Nazi-controlled Reichstag enacted more strident laws barring various political parties from contesting seats and mounting candidates. So yeah, ultimately the Nazis ran against a shrinking slate of weaker candidates -- aka strawmen -- and won.

      So, has today's Russian Federation -- Jeffersonian democrat Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin presiding -- ever barred a particular party or candidate from participating in an election?

      http://www.businessinsider.com/putin...lection-2011-6
      https://www.politico.eu/article/alex...eader-navalny/
      https://qz.com/1181625/russias-only-...-the-election/
      https://meduza.io/en/feature/2015/07...tic-coalition;
      https://antiguaobserver.com/putin-fo...sian-election/
      https://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0127/98772-russia/


      Originally posted by Emtos View Post
      So basically you're producing strawmen now.
      You were saying . . . .

      Originally posted by Emtos View Post
      Different standard according to the laws.
      Funny how that works when the government that employs those agents -- soldiers, police, et al -- writes the laws that govern their agents' conduct. It'd be like the mafia writing their own laws.

      Originally posted by Emtos View Post
      Cops can kill you and get nothing for this. Same for army, secret services and so on. They have superior rights to normal folks.
      We know. I heard a judge call a defendant who defended himself a "filthy layman," such is the contempt in which our betters view us . . . .

      Originally posted by Emtos View Post
      It's only when they go further than those rights, we can speak abut murder.
      And when does that happen?

      Like I said, as a maximum political leader, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has been culpable in numerous crimes, up to and including murder. It's part-and-parcel of his job.

      Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
      Remembering good old classics:

      DiQmvcqUcAAtqEi.jpg

      Frankly speaking I don't understand people driven up the wall. Two years were enough to get accustomed to T's rough and direct manner of speech.
      I'm no fan of Trump's -- not by any stretch of the imagination -- but you're quite right: the reaction to Trump has grown downright hysterical. What his passionate opponents are overlooking is that Trump's poor behavior is not revolutionary, but merely evolutionary, built up on precedents established by his predecessors in the Oval Office in recent decades. Yeah, Trump's an a$$hole, but he's following in a proud tradition.
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Massena View Post
        He has a duty to defend the Constitution and support his own country, especially against dictators and murderers like Putin.

        Trump is a skunk of the first order.
        Kennedy has managed to improve relationship with Khruschev without betraying his country. Khrushev-era negotiations were ever harder than today. Treasonous behavior is not needed to improve the relations with Russia.

        "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
        --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Massena View Post
          He has a duty to defend the Constitution and support his own country, especially against dictators and murderers like Putin.

          Trump is a skunk of the first order.
          Funny, when Democrats care more for illegal criminals then they do of American citizens.
          My worst jump story:
          My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
          As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
          No lie.

          ~
          "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
          -2 Commando Jumpmaster

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

            His first electoral win -- 1932 -- was legit. By Spring of '33, the Nazi-controlled Reichstag enacted more strident laws barring various political parties from contesting seats and mounting candidates. So yeah, ultimately the Nazis ran against a shrinking slate of weaker candidates -- aka strawmen -- and won.
            It's another thing. But in the beginning they were playing by the rules and were the most popular party.

            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            So, has today's Russian Federation -- Jeffersonian democrat Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin presiding -- ever barred a particular party or candidate from participating in an election?
            It did. The same takes place in all democratic countries.Had you been following the Russian politics, you would know that the majority of those politicians and parties have a negligible weight. Their exclusion doesn't changes the whole picture and is done according to the law.

            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            You were saying . . . .
            And I'm right.

            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            Funny how that works when the government that employs those agents -- soldiers, police, et al -- writes the laws that govern their agents' conduct. It'd be like the mafia writing their own laws.
            It's normal. The most of the time people are fine with that.


            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            Like I said, as a maximum political leader, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has been culpable in numerous crimes, up to and including murder. It's part-and-parcel of his job.
            It's not a crime as long as it wasn't proved in a court.
            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Emtos View Post
              It's another thing. But in the beginning they were playing by the rules and were the most popular party.
              So one day Herr Schicklegruber was a democrat, and the next he was not. Got it.

              And the same applies to Putin. Whatever he was back in 2000, he's not that today.

              Originally posted by Emtos View Post
              [Russian Federation] did [ban party and candidates] The same takes place in all democratic countries.
              Can you tell me which parties have been barred from participation in the US?

              Originally posted by Emtos View Post
              Had you been following the Russian politics, you would know that the majority of those politicians and parties have a negligible weight. Their exclusion doesn't changes the whole picture and is done according to the law.
              That I believe: Russia's opposition is, by and large, ineffective, and their prospects at the polls aren't too promising. As a matter of fact, I know of no serious observer of Russian affairs who disagrees with that view. That, however, begs a serious question: if these opposition figures' prospects are so hopeless, as is nearly universally acknowledged, then why should Russia's government -- Putin's government -- go through the effort of barring them? What's the point?

              Originally posted by Emtos View Post
              And I'm right.
              You're right only between your own ears. Out in reality, however . . . .

              Originally posted by Emtos View Post
              It's normal. The most of the time people are fine with that.
              Maybe Negroes are smarter than we've supposed all along . . . .

              Originally posted by Emtos View Post
              It's not a crime as long as it wasn't proved in a court.
              You mean it's not a crime as long as you stock the legislature, the prosecutor's office, the jury box . . . . It's only a crime when you pi$$ off the wrong guy. Apart from that, when you're wearing that shield, it's all legal.
              Last edited by slick_miester; 17 Jul 18, 15:33.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                So one day Herr Schicklegruber was a democrat, and the next he was not. Got it.
                Yes.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                And the same applies to Putin. Whatever he was back in 2000, he's not that today.
                He didn't changed much.


                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Can you tell me which parties have been barred from participation in the US?
                I have no idea. I don't follow your stuff. But I remember the dirty game played by Hillary against Sanders. As an exemple.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                That I believe: Russia's opposition is, by and large, ineffective, and their prospects at the polls aren't too promising. As a matter of fact, I know of no serious observer of Russian affairs who disagrees with that view. That, however, begs a serious question: if these opposition figures' prospects are so hopeless, as is nearly universally acknowledged, then why should Russia's government -- Putin's government -- go through the effort of barring them? What's the point?
                Some of them are barred because they don't follow the rules. Others are barred because the bureaucrats want to distinguish themselves ineyes of the czar. Some are clearly nuts. But I cannot remember a worthy candidate being prevented from participating in elections.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                You're right only between your own ears. Out in reality, however . . . .
                Out in reality I'm right too.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Maybe Negroes are smarter than we've supposed all along . . . .
                I leave that to you.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                You mean it's not a crime as long as you stock the legislature, the prosecutor's office, the jury box . . . . It's only a crime when you **** off the wrong guy. Apart from that, when you're wearing that shield, it's all legal.
                The system will protect itself. It's the best a capitalist system has to offer.
                There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                  Are you suggesting that Vladimir Vladimirovich is some kind of Jeffersonian democrat?
                  Why does everything have to be compared to an American entity ? What about complexity ?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                    [Putin] didn't changed much.
                    So Putin has always been the 1933 version of Hitler. Thank you for the clarification.

                    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                    I have no idea. I don't follow your stuff. But I remember the dirty game played by Hillary against Sanders. As an exemple.
                    Sanders wasn't barred from running: he was just shafted is all -- and he wasn't shafted by the government, but by the party whose nomination he was trying to earn. That's as common as dirt 'round here. We learned that kind of thing from the Irish a century and a half ago.

                    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                    Some of them are barred because they don't follow the rules. Others are barred because the bureaucrats want to distinguish themselves ineyes of the czar. Some are clearly nuts. But I cannot remember a worthy candidate being prevented from participating in elections.
                    You'd think that Putin would tell his lackeys not to do things that make him look despotic, like barring his former prime minister when the guy was only pulling 1% in the pre-election polls . . . .

                    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                    Out in reality I'm right too.
                    Rod Serling is looking for you.

                    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                    I leave that to you.
                    Black Lives Matter: a movement which represents a constituency that's decidedly unsatisfied with the status quo. I'm sure that they'd like to amend some of the laws concerning government agents' conduct.

                    Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                    The system will protect itself. It's the best a capitalist system has to offer.
                    There ain't an "-ism" that's been invented that didn't excel at protecting itself. If there were, then it wouldn't last long enough to constitute an historical footnote, now would it.

                    Originally posted by Konzev View Post
                    Why does everything have to be compared to an American entity ? What about complexity ?
                    Alright then. If the American metaphor for unalloyed democracy upsets your crooked-finger-while-sipping-tea sensibilities, then what phrase would you put in its place: Athenian democrat? Thomas Paine democrat? Zaparozhye democrat?

                    Funny, but I can't think of any German democratic models . . . .
                    Last edited by slick_miester; 17 Jul 18, 15:32.
                    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Trump's affinity towards the Russians/Putin is shared by the "Alt right" but not fanatical conservatives or traditional conservatives.

                      That's why he's getting fire on both sides.
                      Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                      Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                      Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                      Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post
                        He has a duty to defend the Constitution and support his own country, especially against dictators and murderers like Putin.

                        Trump is a skunk of the first order.
                        The American Presidents have to defend their citizen from foreign and domestic threats. If Lobbyst's have stirred a President into a direction, that takes jobs away due to outsourcing , the freedom of press away due to only allow advertisers as opinion makers, Banks stealing your savings, than the threat is Domestic and not foreign.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post



                          Prove it.
                          He just won the election with way over 60%.

                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                          All maximum political leaders are murderers: US Presidents, UK Prime Ministers, Russian despots . . . . It's paragraph 1 of their job description.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAdUuGsi30g

                          C'mon. This is stuff you should know.
                          By your definition ? Gimme a break.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bow View Post


                            What will you do when Trumps castles come tumbling down????? and he ends up in the same trailer court as you.....
                            Nothing, Emtos is not a resident of the US.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                              So Putin has always been the 1933 version of Hitler. Thank you for the clarification.
                              Forgot your pills too ?


                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                              Sanders wasn't barred from running: he was just shafted is all. That's as common as dirt 'round here. We learned that kind of thing from the Irish.
                              In Russia is done in more civilized manner.

                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                              You'd think that Putin would tell his lackeys not to do things that make him look despotic, like barring his former prime minister when the guy was only pulling 1% in the pre-election polls . . . .
                              They had the means to do that in a legal way. Knowing that he was nammed "Mikhail 2%" , he got really lightly being simply barred from taking part in elections.


                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                              Rod Serling is looking for you.
                              Have no idea about him.

                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                              Black Lives Matter: a movement which represents a constituency that's decidedly unsatisfied with the status quo. I'm sure that they'd like to amend some of the laws concerning government agents' conduct.
                              Then they should elect someone who will do it.

                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                              There ain't an "-ism" that's been invested that didn't excel at protecting itself. If there were, then it wouldn't last long enough to constitute an historical footnote, now would it.
                              Socialism was unable to protect himself. We en by having a system which will protect himself or a system that will not and will be destroyed.
                              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                                Forgot your pills too ?
                                Snarky -- but you've not detailed any of Putin's democratic bona fides. By your continued dodging, I'm left to assume that he has none.

                                Unless you can rectify my . . . . apprehension, it will have to stand.

                                Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                                In Russia is done in more civilized manner.
                                Billy to the kneecap, or ~150 grains of lead to the brain stem?

                                Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                                They had the means to do that in a legal way. Knowing that he was nammed "Mikhail 2%" , he got really lightly being simply barred from taking part in elections.
                                No doubt saved his supporters tons in campaign spending . . . . Nevertheless, why not let the schmuck run, and get his a$$ handed to him at the polls? Would've looked even better for Putin, wouldn't you agree?

                                Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                                Have no idea about him.
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

                                Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                                Then they should elect someone who will do it.
                                They had eight years of Obama. No doubt they'll jack up other candidates of that ilk before too long.

                                Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                                Socialism was unable to protect himself.
                                Yeah. Something about being an unmitigated disaster tends to topple even the most oppressive regimes.

                                Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                                We en by having a system which will protect himself or a system that will not and will be destroyed.
                                Unless of course it destroys itself. That is what Bolshevism did, isn't it: destroyed itself from within, rather than suffered destruction from without? Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov wrote reams on the subject, commissioned reams more from KGB researchers . . . . Come to think of it, that's what British Labour socialism did: destroyed itself. That's what Tanzania's Julius Nyerere version of socialism did too . . . . Funny that so many socialist regimes destroyed themselves, time and time and time again. Think there's a pattern at work?
                                Last edited by slick_miester; 17 Jul 18, 16:02.
                                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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