Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Trump rattles NATO, questioning its value, assailing Germany

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post

    Great! Then the US can leave NATO, and Europe can recruit ISIS to help them.
    Since it's all about new relationships, why not then? If the US is now an adversary.

    Though it's actually China you need to watch. Russia's usefulness to China is rather more limited than the EU's, and besides Russia is biddable regardless for the Chinese. If the EU has no friend in the US, and no friend in Russia, then China might actually serve. If the gambit is to prevent the US, Russia and China from teaming up on the EU, in purely geopolitical terms, the EU absolutely should court China. (No one gives a rats ass about things like democracy, human rights in this anyway, unless the EU does, but if that's now considered a liability, since the US no longer shares these sentiments, why should the EU be expected to constrain itself like that?) Do that, then Russia is a sandwich to be devoured, and the US can safely be sidelined.

    All of which only makes any smidge of sense on the assumption that the US actually wants to be an adversary of the EU, and thinks courting Russia over the EU is a good idea. Bring the Chinese in to chew up the Russians then, and that leaves the US as the sole problem.

    Comment


    • I don't see the EU as an enemy of the US. Trump is "bargaining" like he usually does.

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post

        Great! Then the US can leave NATO, and Europe can recruit ISIS to help them.
        I'll convey your message to the Emperor of Europe and the Grand Council of Jedis. Just gonna back off slowly now...no need to pay any further attention to me. Just keep doing whatever it is you do....in your own space.
        Wisdom is personal

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
          I don't see the EU as an enemy of the US. Trump is "bargaining" like he usually does.

          Pruitt
          It's not really working though. It seems to me the only people he hasn't managed to **** off are his own avid-rabid fans, Putin, and Kim of NK. More and more it seems like everyone else have made their mind just to ignore him until the next election in USA rolls around.

          Ie. Trump says something like "Europe needs to pay for NATO" and the European go "sure, sure Trump, we will, now go play with the crayons". Of course, what else would empty threats be met by than empty promises.
          Wisdom is personal

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Karri View Post

            It's not really working though. It seems to me the only people he hasn't managed to **** off are his own avid-rabid fans, Putin, and Kim of NK. More and more it seems like everyone else have made their mind just to ignore him until the next election in USA rolls around.

            Ie. Trump says something like "Europe needs to pay for NATO" and the European go "sure, sure Trump, we will, now go play with the crayons". Of course, what else would empty threats be met by than empty promises.

            "French President Emmanuel Macron has formally signed into law a new multiyear defense budget, clearing the way for a funding boost for procurement for the Air Force, Army and Navy.

            Macron signed the 2019-2025 military budget law on July 13 at Brienne House, just before the garden party held on the eve of the Bastille Day military parade on the Champs Elysées.

            This was a "military budget law of growth," he said in a speech to the officers and personnel who would take part in the parade the next day. The spending would be at a level unseen for decades, hitting the defense spending target of 2 percent of gross domestic product by 2025, he added, and the move comes at a time when the domestic budget was under strain…"
            https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...s-are-getting/

            Trumps "bargaining" is working (among some anyway)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
              Current role in Europe is largely just training. It hardly matters if they do that in Europe or in the USA. I mean it would reduce the roles at all.
              AFAIK no. US forces in Europe are not here training they are on deployment.
              If the US no longer wants to deploy forces to Europe it no longer needs such large forces.

              Sure, but aren't current bilateral deals directly related to NATO agreements. I mean if they are then you are really looking like collapsing house of cards.
              Without the US there is no NATO.

              It doesn't. All it does is state that military expenditure would be larger. That is the only thing it does guarantee.
              If you don't get more and/or better by spending more, you're doing it wrong.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gooner View Post



                Trumps "bargaining" is working (among some anyway)
                No, not at all. The budget you are referring to was first proposed and approved back in 2015 in response to the Projet de Loi de Programmation Militaire (LPM) 2014-2019 proposal which was intended to slash rather than increase. A few high profile and very public spats between then-President Hollande and a few top generals made a reversal of the old plan inevitable. The newly revised budget was guaranteed to sail through government.....had absolutely nothing to do with Trump or his "bargaining" whatsoever. It became final, formalized and announced back in April, but was in the works long before Trump became president.
                You'll live, only the best get killed.

                -General Charles de Gaulle

                Comment


                • No Trump's approach isn't working with the Europeans. There have been no NATO defense spending hikes that weren't already announced before, and they haven't changed (even if Trump claims this, as he does about oh so many things). It's not really possibly, at least pointless, to use anything that has come out of Trump's mouth as a guideline to how European NATO spending is working out. At best they have garnered a bit more urgency because the US is now seen as unreliable. It might all be working with Trump's domestic base in the US, but that's something else.

                  My morning paper (Indep Lib-Cons) today was leading with the headline: "EU abandons Trump, approaches China".

                  Which, if we as it seems are in a race to the bottom here, indicates all the EU's eastern troubles can be mitigated by dropping the US, partnering with China, and putting a hefty thumb in each of Putin's eyes, one from the east and one from the west. Geography as well as politics and economics insists that there would be little either Russia or the US could do about it in that case, except play nice.

                  What there isn't as yet is any consistent common EU foreign policy. Trump might actually be driving the EU ahead of him to develop approaches independent of the US, which would be a novelty. It's also unwanted, as the US+EU carries a LOT of weight. But Trump is 1) reneging on previous US commitments and supposed common values with the EU, 2) further using the US to undercut the EU in clearly favour of a vision of a fragemented Europe of smaller, weaker states (pro-Brexit, telling Macron Fraxit would be "great", taking cues from Farage about the EU etc.) that could be picked off singly. Which is one possible future scenario the EU members are looking at, and not much liking. (Putin approves.)

                  The overlapping European institutions is an ensemble. One cannot try to muck about too much in one part of it (NATO) without it having broader repercussions elsewhere.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by asterix View Post

                    No, not at all. The budget you are referring to was first proposed and approved back in 2015 in response to the Projet de Loi de Programmation Militaire (LPM) 2014-2019 proposal which was intended to slash rather than increase. A few high profile and very public spats between then-President Hollande and a few top generals made a reversal of the old plan inevitable. The newly revised budget was guaranteed to sail through government.....had absolutely nothing to do with Trump or his "bargaining" whatsoever. It became final, formalized and announced back in April, but was in the works long before Trump became president.
                    Yeah, sure, we believe ya

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                      Polish borders were unnatural and they were corrected.
                      Quite natural borders, majority Polish lands in the West and in the East they saved millions, including Poles, from living under the horrors of the Soviet Union.

                      Nope. But an enemy of Germany.
                      If Germany, with Poland, had decided to attack the Soviets instead of in the West the French would have been laughing like drains.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                        I don't see the EU as an enemy of the US. Trump is "bargaining" like he usually does.

                        Pruitt
                        No, Trump is actively alienating the allies of the US and playing second fiddle to Putin. Trump has no idea how to deal in the international arena.
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                          Yeah, sure, we believe ya
                          You can believe what you want...seeing how you've already used selective historical revisionism to suit your narrative. There's nothing wrong with being thick, what is a shame is your unwillingness to admit you might be wrong on this. The chronology of the newly passed French military budget shows it began long before Trump's entrance on the world stage.
                          You'll live, only the best get killed.

                          -General Charles de Gaulle

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gooner View Post

                            Quite natural borders, majority Polish lands in the West and in the East they saved millions, including Poles, from living under the horrors of the Soviet Union.


                            If Germany, with Poland, had decided to attack the Soviets instead of in the West the French would have been laughing like drains.
                            Poland was not better than the Soviet Union and even worse. Bielorussians and Ukrainians were threated as second rate citizens. Those who resisted get sent to concentration camp. No regrets for the disappearance of hyena of Europe.

                            France wasn't interested in a strong Germany. Poland was a tool for them, not a goal.
                            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by asterix View Post
                              The chronology of the newly passed French military budget shows it began long before Trump's entrance on the world stage.
                              Clearly long before Macron was even president then!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                                Poland was not better than the Soviet Union and even worse.
                                Post of the day!

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X