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Ireland to drop 8th ammendment

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  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post

    And many are incapable of assuming that responsibility and/or abdicate from it and the mother ends up bearing the full load.
    That's also true. The point remains that much of the debate around abortion centers around the right of a woman to choose whether or not she wants to be a mother and her right to make that choice. There is no discussion as to whether the father should also have the right to choose.

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  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

    My point is that while she will not have to become a parent against her will the father might and if he does then he has that responsibility thrust open him for the rest of his life.
    And many are incapable of assuming that responsibility and/or abdicate from it and the mother ends up bearing the full load.

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  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    Well obviously some sort of agreement with the girls parents would have to be reached, but it's not impossible is it ?

    Certainly if the girl doesn't want to be a mother - then there's a problem,

    you can't force someone to give birth and raise a child after all.. but no law will change that.

    Some things need to be considered before impregnating a girl, and if he's my son he'll know that
    My point is that while she will not have to become a parent against her will the father might and if he does then he has that responsibility thrust open him for the rest of his life.

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Well obviously some sort of agreement with the girls parents would have to be reached, but it's not impossible is it ?

    Certainly if the girl doesn't want to be a mother - then there's a problem,

    you can't force someone to give birth and raise a child after all.. but no law will change that.

    Some things need to be considered before impregnating a girl, and if he's my son he'll know that

    Leave a comment:


  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    Well the few cases of abortion I witnessed personally were in absence of a (useful) father, so in that regard, while he may not get to choose, by his actions he can imho certainly influence the outcome...
    Sure, if he's not around then he doesn't get a say but if your 17 year old daughter came home and said she was pregnant she would get to choose if she wanted to become a parent. If your 17 year old son came home and said that his girlfriend was pregnant he wouldn't get to choose if he became a parent.

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Well the few cases of abortion I witnessed personally were in absence of a (useful) father, so in that regard, while he may not get to choose, by his actions he can imho certainly influence the outcome...

    Leave a comment:


  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    There's merit, but it's not unique for abortion, an unborn child doesn't get to choose,

    Not if its mother jumps off a bridge, runs her car against a wall, if she decides to smoke or drink during pregnancy, the quality of the father, or any other thing

    In fact if you put a child up for adoption, it doesn't get to choose either.



    I agree.
    It should also be remembered that pregnancy is for 9 months whereas parenthood is for life and the father doesn't get to choose either way.

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
    The argument from the pro-life side is that the unborn child doesn't get to choose. I think there is merit in that argument. I don't understand why anyone can be black and white on such a complex issue.
    There's merit, but it's not unique for abortion, an unborn child doesn't get to choose,

    Not if its mother jumps off a bridge, runs her car against a wall, if she decides to smoke or drink during pregnancy, the quality of the father, or any other thing

    In fact if you put a child up for adoption, it doesn't get to choose either.




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  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post

    The argument from the pro-life side is that the unborn child doesn't get to choose. I think there is merit in that argument. I don't understand why anyone can be black and white on such a complex issue.
    Among reasonable people there can be some measure of nuance, perhaps even some measure of disagreement. Since the late-1970s, however, abortion has been used as a "wedge issue" by professional political operatives as a means leveraging away voters from one party and towards another. The debate about abortion TODAY has little or nothing to do with the sanctity of life, or the freedom to choose, and everything with professional operatives converting citizens from reasonable people holding various opinions into frothing-at-the-mouth political partisans. In short, it's nothing but a great con, like everything else in politics.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_issue

    Leave a comment:


  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

    I suspect most would.

    It's not because abortion is legally allowed, you're forced to make use of that option though, as long as all other alternatives are available as well.

    That's somewhat different with the death penalty which can imposed on you.
    The argument from the pro-life side is that the unborn child doesn't get to choose. I think there is merit in that argument. I don't understand why anyone can be black and white on such a complex issue.

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
    ...I consider every abortion to be tragic.
    I suspect most would.

    It's not because abortion is legally allowed, you're forced to make use of that option though, as long as all other alternatives are available as well.

    That's somewhat different with the death penalty which can imposed on you.

    Leave a comment:


  • E.D. Morel
    replied
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

    Then abortion after 12 weeks is murder.
    The law, as proposed, will allow abortions after 12 weeks when there is a real and substantial threat to the life of the mother.
    I've no problem with that though I consider every abortion to be tragic.

    Leave a comment:


  • joea
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post

    Um.... hello?

    Could have sworn I posted that I support both, right here on this very thread.

    And I can't be the only one.... can I?
    Me too sort of...my issue with both is that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control you know an ounce of prevention...

    I would be for the death penalty if it were more evenly applied and am quite worried about judicial errors, although modern forensics makes it a little for certain.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
    Weird thing, those opposed to abortion support the death penalty while those who support abortion oppose the death penalty...

    Just say'n...
    Um.... hello?

    Could have sworn I posted that I support both, right here on this very thread.

    And I can't be the only one.... can I?

    Leave a comment:


  • Emtos
    replied
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

    Then abortion after 12 weeks is murder.
    Depends on the laws. Normally it's not.

    Leave a comment:

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