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  • Bin Laden Offers Truce to Europe

    Source

    Dubai, April 15 (NNN): In the first of such moves since the deadly September 11, 2001 terror attacks on America, Al-Qaeda kingpin, Osama Bin Laden, has offered Europe a ceasefire if it "stops attacking Muslims".


    The offers was aired an audiotape telecast by an Arab television network that carried the statement, said to be from Osama Bin Laden. However in the tape, aired by the al-Arabiya satellite channel on Thursday, the voice said the truce would not be extended to the United States, Reuters news agency reported.

    The person on the tape also vowed to avenge Israel's killing of Hamas' spiritual leader Ahmed Sheikh Yassin.

    The authenticity of the tape could not be immediately verified.

    The tape also refers to the March 11 bombings in Madrid, Spain and the events of September 11, 2001.

    It said the attacks were payment for US and Spanish actions in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Palestinian territories. "What happened on September 11 and March 11 are your goods returned to you, so that you know security is a necessity for all," the voice said.

    The tape also reportedly criticises US policy for ignoring the "real problem" which is "the occupation of all of Palestine", the Associated Press reported.

    And it condemns the recent US-led conflict in Iraq as a money-making scheme for companies making weapons or aiding reconstruction efforts - specifically naming the American firm Halliburton, Associated Press said.

    It is worth mentioning here that several tapes purporting to be by Osama Bin Laden have surfaced since the September 11 terror attacks - which the US has blamed on his al-Qaeda network. The most recent, broadcast in January by the Qatar-based Arab satellite television channel al-Jazeera, condemned the occupation in Iraq and attacked Arab nations which supported the war.

    The US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) later said that analysis indicated the voice on the January tape was that of Osama Bin Laden.
    "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

  • #2
    Observation:

    It is not a bad move on Bin Laden's part. The US claims terrorists can't be reasoned with. This contradicts that ideal.

    There are other motives as well.

    First, Bin Laden wants to keep Europe out of Iraq. If Bush succeeds in bring in the UN or NATO, any insurgency operation in that country will become more difficult to sustain. Countries that at least turn a blind eye to movements across their borders will have little choice, but to cooperate.

    Secondly, Bin Laden could be trying to capitalize on what he might see as favorable conditions in Europe created by the war in Iraq. The fallout from that deteriorating situation has already been linked in the media to the downfall of one govern-ment. It is easy for Bin Laden to reach the conclusion that support for the US has been degraded to a point where an covert agreement, if not public, agreement could be made that limits the number of enemies he has. There were reports of a similar agreement between Habr Gadr forces and the Italian government in Somalia.

    Third, there are some concerns about the sincerity of Ariel Sharon's new iniative to jump start the peace process. Some observers think it might just be a power move meant to detract away from personal scandals, and growing pressure both internationally, and domestically concerning the Gaza region.

    There are other political motives as well. Afghanistan is experiencing greater problems. NATO and the US are stretched thin, and appear to be having serious control problems. The situation in Iraq is bad both for the Coalition and insurgents. There is reportedly considerable doubt at the higher levels of the Shiite population about contined fighting. While alot of countries don't support the US occupation, they also would prefer to avoid the instability that could be increased as fighting continues. There are a number of countries negotating on the behalf of the US, and those discussions appear to be very encouraging.

    (Those are just the reasons I can think of at the moment.)

    I don't expect Europe to take the offer seriously. While many countries did not support the war in Iraq, people in general have not allowed that to shatter their support for the effort against terrorism. In fact, most view each incident seperately. Alot of foriegners died on 9/11. So Bin Laden has invoked the wrath of more than just Americans. The proposal is vague and to some degree threatening. It is the old "with us or against strategy." People often view such tones with disapproval simply because they don't like such threats.

    Finally, I don't think people trust Bin Laden or his organ-ization. His definition of "hostile" behavior likely differs from our own, or it has the potential to differ if encouraged.

    Still, it is an interesting move.
    "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

    Comment


    • #3
      how can anyone actually take this nonsense seriously. A Bin Laden tape, yeah right. The dude is deader than a doornail.
      He hasn't even come out with a videotape since the afghan war.
      These audio tapes are just trumped up nonsense and people fall for it every time. The swiss reviewed all these audio tapes and concluded it wasn't bin laden's voice.
      "Speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European as well, it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans. They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own Michael Moore, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities." - Christopher Hitchens

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kid kool
        how can anyone actually take this nonsense seriously. A Bin Laden tape, yeah right. The dude is deader than a doornail.
        Originally posted by kid kool

        He hasn't even come out with a videotape since the afghan war.

        These audio tapes are just trumped up nonsense and people fall for it every time.


        I'm not surprised he hasn't made more videos. It's all he can do just to keep his skin intact. Are these tapes for real? Who can say with 100% certainty.

        The Swiss reviewed all these audio tapes and concluded it wasn't bin laden's voice.


        Now there's an elite organization...

        I think Deltapooh is correct that this may alienate some Europeans a bit. They probably feel a bit insulted that Bin Laden would even consider coming to them. He didn't come to the US. He didn't come to the Canadians or the Australians. This offer was only extended to Europe. Of course Bin Laden wants to keep Europe out, but that's missing the far larger point. Why did he come to Europe? The reason is obvious: he sees a possibility (in his mind) that Europeans will deal with him. The undertones of what this says about how al Qaeda perceives Europe speaks volumes.

        Do I think anyone in a European government will give this serious consideration? No, not in any direct fashion. However, Deltapooh is correct that this may be a wise move on Osama's part. It certainly underscores the idea that if Europe stays out of al Qaeda's affairs al Qaeda will stay out of Europe's. Is Bin Laden trustworthy? Of course not, but this is a not-so-subtle ploy to take advantage of Europe's obvious fear of the terrorist network. This is in part being fueled by Spainís recent electoral outcome. I said some weeks ago that it was pointless for us to debate exactly why the Spanish changed their government. The only thing that really matters (in the context of what we're talking about here) is how al Qaeda perceives that event.

        We now have solid proof that al Qaeda has arrived at the conclusion that they can bend Europe to their will. They will seek to do this either with continued violence (which gets al Qaeda what they want), or through the mere threat of continued terrorism. Bin Laden's offer was a veiled threat (i.e. do what we want or we'll renew our efforts to harm you). The whole point of terrorism is to cause a political shift by means of violence. It's obvious that al Qaeda believes they are making progress in this area. This is what is most disturbing about this and why some experts are saying this is fairly bad news. Why? Let me explain.

        Many people are under the impression that al Qaeda and similar organizations have taken a beating in the last several years. Much of their money has been cut off and some of their senior members killed or captured. Unfortunately, al Qaeda does not react to its own casualties the way a traditional force does. They see themselves as doing God's work, thus death is of little consequence. So victory cannot be measured against al Qaeda in this fashion. Victory can only be measured by completely eliminating them or bb causing them to abandon their hopes of achieving a political change by means of violence. The fact that al Qaeda is making such offers certainly suggests that they think they are making significant progress. In other words, al Qaeda seems to believe they are losing individual battles, but they are winning the war (i.e. bending nations and peoples to their political will). The fact that such an offer was made at all (by Bin Laden or other al Qaeda members) suggests that the terrorists now view Europe as weak, or at least pliable on the subject of terrorism.

        Clearly, if Europe has intended to send the message that they are strong and have the will to resist any terrorism, then that message has obviously not gotten through. The terrorists perceive a different situation. If Europe rejects this "olive branch" out of hand, then surely al Qaeda will target them as a demonstration of their power. Look for a significant terrorist event somewhere in Europe within a short period. At an absolute minimum, the threat of such an attack will loom large for the immediate future.
        Editor-in-Chief
        GameSquad.com

        Comment


        • #5
          simply put: One has not to deal with terorists. You just cannot trust them and in most cases their hostage is already dead anyway.
          Maj. Reismann: "Kill every officer in sight!"
          soldier: "Ours or theirs?"

          Comment


          • #6
            Is it true the government of Spain had offered surrender to Bin Laden even before the terrorist finished his tape statement?

            "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
            --Frederick II, King of Prussia

            Comment


            • #7
              From his angle all this makes sense:

              Divide your enemies amongst themselves.

              Seperate the weak from the strong.

              Deter the uncommitted from entering the fray.

              But lets be honest, if America didn't care about hunting down OBL, nobody else would either.
              http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wolfe Tone
                From his angle all this makes sense:

                Divide your enemies amongst themselves.

                Seperate the weak from the strong.

                Deter the uncommitted from entering the fray.
                Correct.

                But lets be honest, if America didn't care about hunting down OBL, nobody else would either.
                Do you think so? For the sake of argument, let's say that America caesed to exist this very moment. Do you think al Qaeda and their spin-off organizations would caese to exist as well? I don't think so. America may be a large enemy for them, but we're not really the enemy they're after. Al Qaeda's goal is to destabilize the entire Middle East and postion themselves to gain from that situation. From what Bin Laden has said on record, it is clearly his intent to use whatever means come his way to topple the governments of the Middle East and establish his own version of an Islamic theocracy.

                It also seems clear that he views all non-Muslims as enemies, or at best, potential enemies. If such an Islamic state ever came into being -- and the possibility does exist -- it's doubtful it would be "business as usual." I don't see any chance that there would be a long term peace between such a state and the rest of the world. Bin laden as ruler of such a state, now fabulously wealthy and in direct control of much of the world's oil reserves, would almost certainly waste no time whatsoever in leveraging his newfound strength to push his own agenda outside the Middle East. At some point the rest of the world would begin to push back and there's no telling how that would end.

                The point being, even in a world without America Osama bin laden would, either on his own or as leader of a state, eventually come into direct conflict with the West. Best to elminate him now and take steps to ensure the Middle east never goes that route.
                Editor-in-Chief
                GameSquad.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree the OBL would exist even without the US. Islamic terrorism, or the ideal of using force to promote the interest of Muslims existed long before the United States.

                  I also agree that Bin Laden sees Europe as the weaker link in the alliance. Unfortunately, the appearance of weakness is in part America's fault. Iraq has clearly derailed the war on terrorism. Afghanistan, a place everyone appeared to believe is a battleground in this conflict, has been abandoned by the US by-in-large. The Taliban have recaptured some areas, opium sales are up, and there are too few soldiers to maintain security, let alone hunt down Al-Qaeda. Yet, the Bush Administration is applying more pressure to involve the international community in Iraq, a place many don't believe is a part of the war on terrorism.

                  Many of our European allies are beginning to question whether or not America is as committed to the War against terrorism as we were before Iraq. And to America's discredit, we have been sluggish to address these concerns in a manner that leaves little doubt. Instead of building off of what we all agree on, Bush is still trying to convince the world Iraq is to some degree even more important than Afghanistan or the Horn of Africa in the fight against terror.

                  This doesn't mean the various European allies don't do a good job at making themselves appear weak. I often have the impression many of our European allies think Muslims are too stupid or noble to use violence as part of a political idealogy. Thus, they place too much emphasis on the ideal that American hegemony, which is something that pisses them off as well.

                  I would be lying if I didn't say I am somewhat concerned some of our European allies will explore the deal. And I am not talking about the people. I am refering to politicians. Bush made deals with terrorists in Iraq to minimize our casualties during the war. Other officials might also see this as an opportunity, particularly if rumors that sleeper cells throughout Europe have been activated are true. These reports began to surface early this year. The bombings in Madrid, threats against France, and other activities might all be warnings. People in general will reject the offer outright. Yet, politicians are politicians.
                  "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Islam is waging a war on other religious groups and on secular people because it is an ideology of conquest and suppression of other people's values. There is no room for non-Muslims in Islam because Muslims consider Islam to be THE TRUTH, not merely another oriental religion. If things appear otherwise to you this is because Islam is too weak in certain parts of the world and they have no choice other than a truce (which they consider merely temporary) you take as tolerance.

                    Kind of like Microsoft corportion, Islam must grow at the expense of others to sustain itself. One Muslim guy blows up people, another guy sets up a sweet website that promotes "interfaith dialogue". Two different people, same objective.

                    Every single national flag present at this message board is on Islam's hit list. The US just happens to be an opponent they need to deal with first, before they go after Wolfe Tone in Ireland. If it weren't for the existence of America, Europe would have been on fire and awash in blood right now, with Bin Laden waging a war on "European Union".
                    Last edited by MonsterZero; 15 Apr 04, 22:07.

                    "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                    --Frederick II, King of Prussia

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      *******it Deltapooh, you could be right about Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm very angry at the situation.

                      After watching the stupid Iraqi mob play footbal with human remains in Falujah, do I still feel we had to come to their rescue? The longer I think about it, the more I'm convinced that psychopath Saddam was a leader truly worthy of his mentally ill people.

                      Anyway, I'm looking forward to some action! When will US troops start shooting again? A few hundred more must die for that Italian guy. Random vengence, the Islamic way.
                      Last edited by MonsterZero; 15 Apr 04, 22:20.

                      "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                      --Frederick II, King of Prussia

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Deltapooh
                        I agree the OBL would exist even without the US. Islamic terrorism, or the ideal of using force to promote the interest of Muslims existed long before the United States.

                        I also agree that Bin Laden sees Europe as the weaker link in the alliance. Unfortunately, the appearance of weakness is in part America's fault. Iraq has clearly derailed the war on terrorism. Afghanistan, a place everyone appeared to believe is a battleground in this conflict, has been abandoned by the US by-in-large. The Taliban have recaptured some areas, opium sales are up, and there are too few soldiers to maintain security, let alone hunt down Al-Qaeda. Yet, the Bush Administration is applying more pressure to involve the international community in Iraq, a place many don't believe is a part of the war on terrorism.

                        Many of our European allies are beginning to question whether or not America is as committed to the War against terrorism as we were before Iraq. And to America's discredit, we have been sluggish to address these concerns in a manner that leaves little doubt. Instead of building off of what we all agree on, Bush is still trying to convince the world Iraq is to some degree even more important than Afghanistan or the Horn of Africa in the fight against terror.

                        This doesn't mean the various European allies don't do a good job at making themselves appear weak. I often have the impression many of our European allies think Muslims are too stupid or noble to use violence as part of a political idealogy. Thus, they place too much emphasis on the ideal that American hegemony, which is something that pisses them off as well.

                        I would be lying if I didn't say I am somewhat concerned some of our European allies will explore the deal. And I am not talking about the people. I am refering to politicians. Bush made deals with terrorists in Iraq to minimize our casualties during the war. Other officials might also see this as an opportunity, particularly if rumors that sleeper cells throughout Europe have been activated are true. These reports began to surface early this year. The bombings in Madrid, threats against France, and other activities might all be warnings. People in general will reject the offer outright. Yet, politicians are politicians.
                        I cant believe you even take this offer seriously.
                        I dont doubt for a minute if they had the means to conduct terrorist attacks in Europe (or anywhere else for that matter) they would do it.
                        And who were we supposed to deal with?
                        The only point i can see in pursuing this is to get close to the leadership, and then send an explosive emmisary.

                        Plz dont think we are that stupid. Terror isnt that big a threat to our societys, of course it horrific when people are blown up, but are we really afraid that they can win?
                        Is there any example anywhere in the world where terrorist actually has succeeded in destroying nationsstates?
                        I cant think of any, and the west consists of the most powerfull nationsstates of all time. Iīm really not that concerned for our societys, we may have to change but i think that is all.
                        I see why kyoto was unacceptable
                        http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/env_pol_car_dio_199
                        http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/env_co2_emi

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MonsterZero
                          Islam is waging a war on other religious groups and on secular people because it is an ideology of conquest and suppression of other people's values. There is no room for non-Muslims in Islam because Muslims consider Islam to be THE TRUTH, not merely another oriental religion. If things appear otherwise to you this is because Islam is too weak in certain parts of the world and they have no choice other than a truce (which they consider merely temporary) you take as tolerance.

                          Every single national flag present at this message board is on Islam's hit list. The US just happens to be an opponent they need to deal with first, before they go after Wolfe Tone in Ireland. If it weren't for the existence of America, Europe would have been on fire and awash in blood right now, with Bin Laden waging a war on "European Union".
                          MZ:

                          Yes we might well be on the hit list all right. Why? Because we allow the US forces to transit through Shannon Airport on their way to sandier places further East. Irish Times today reports that ''Big increase in number of US troops passing through Shannon'', Last month 16,667 troops on 161 flights passed through. In the first quarter of the year a total of 35,926 came through. I'm sure OBL and his pals will be wanting to pay us a visit anytime soon!

                          What might deter an attack is that well we might just be kind of lucky because we are a small nation on an island and word gets around fast if anything suss is happening. On the other hand 20,000 + Muslims live here now and that population is growing all the time due to lax immigration controls. All it would take is a collection of a few individuals willing to sacrifice their lives...

                          But the fact is we made a choice about this and actions can/do have consequences.

                          If America did not exist then neither would Israel, there would have been no western military presence in Saudi Arabia or the Gulf etc. No occupation of Afghanistan or Iraq.
                          But if the US did, no matter how far fetched it might be, reach an accommodation with OBL then you can be sure the rest of the Western Nations would fall into line before Uncle Sam told them in no uncertain terms to stop rocking the boat.

                          MZ too you are way too hard on Islam. Many people of other religions have lived under Islamic rule, Jews included, over the centuries and not faced persecution. Look at the millions of Copts in Egypt today. The Lebanese Christians, the Jews of Baghdad are other examples of people who were there for centuries. It is only in recent times that things turned sour due to the West’s invasions of the Muslim lands in North Africa, and the Middle East.

                          Islam was a conquering religion in its first phase of expansion in the 6th to 8th centuries. After that a more pragmatic approach prevailed in the Arab lands, with Non-Moslems having to pay a tax to the State if they did not convert. Elsewhere Islam expanded through preaching and conversion, esp. in Africa south of the Sahara and in Indonesia. What the Moslems will not stand for is anyone trying to convert Moslems. That would cause big trouble!

                          For you to say Islam is waging a War is just not true. Islam is a huge religion with different sects, ethnic groups, national identities, secular and religious divides contained within it. It is not a single entity with a central directorate telling its members what to do. It is much more amorphous than say the Catholic Church with the Pope at it’s head. If the Pope tomorrow declared a new Crusade to retake the Holy Land for the True Faith how many people would volunteer? I think numbers would be down than the last time around. So with Islam, most people only want the quite life, not war with the world.

                          There are certainly Islamic fanatics but from their perspective it’s a case of forcing the West to leave them alone, no matter what the cost in blood. It is not their desire to conquer new lands for their religion.

                          So while OBL will never be able to strike a deal maybe the West should consider a saner approach to relations with the Muslim world than invading and occupying them and supporting Israel in just about everything she does.
                          http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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