Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Catalonia.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    No as these are all based on old old ethnic divides not aristocratic whims. BTW the Corsicans were for a short time BRITISH at their own request! (The Corsican Rangers served in Egypt under the British army in 1801). This arrangement was back dated so that technically speaking Napoleon was British!

    BTW Switzerland has a lot more than 3 Cantons and Belgium is not that neatly divided up. You could get your throat cut in Corsica defining them as Italian - they were under Genoese domination for a long time but never liked it - read some real history.
    Oh do climb off your throne and do a bit reading yourself. My point was that aristocratic whims ignored ethnic divides. Pasquale Paoli (notice the British name) was behind the first Corsican Constitution was drawn up in 1755 for the short-lived Corsican Republic and it was written in Tuscan Italian, the language of elite culture and people in Corsica at the time. Corsican is virtually identical to that other British language Sardinian and the Corsicans and the Sardinians are virtually tied at the hip. I will also point out that Sicilians do not consider themselves Italian but consider themselves Sicilians first and foremost. But hey, in your view I am sure that the Irish just loved being under British rule right? So tell me, have you ever set foot outside the UK and do you speak any language besides English? I am guessing that you don't.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=cors...=1507209247968
    Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

    Initiated Chief Petty Officer
    Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by sebfrench76 View Post
      I am a huge fan of your lifestyle , go regularly in Spain , and has spent about a month in Barcelona.
      The expression of the Catalonian pride is so visible that you feel like in another country inside Spain.
      Yeah sure, and in Berlin in 1938 there were Nazi flags all around as expression of patriotic German pride, tell that to the jews

      In parts of Catalonia and the Basque country displaying a Spanish flag in your balcony can make life unpleasant for you.


      You know that much of that Catalan nationalist pride is artificial and people going to flow, once things start to get ugly pride vanishes very quickly.
      CANNON, n.
      An instrument employed in the rectification of national boundaries.

      The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce

      http://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/

      http://pinturasdeguerra.tumblr.com/

      http://pinturasdeguerra-mar.tumblr.com/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by von Junzt View Post
        I already know and told you the kind of unpleasant character you are and we will leave it at that.


        It seems that by your repeated posts here you are a bored troll that like to say things that are false, inaccurate, and out of touch with reality. You are not alone on this of course, so I am addressing some other people as well. Either you are a troll or your powers of intelect and reasoning are very limited and are unable to understand the situation or make any effort to understand it, or are being very one-sided on purpose. Equidistance is not objectivity or being impartial. When one side is extremist, equidistance puts you closer to the extreme than to the center.


        Any impartial observer would notice that your posts, and several others along the same lines, are worthless. You don't know the subject you are talking about. Absolutely nothing, other than your cherry picking of things you pick to reinforce your bias and preconceived notion. You are voicing opinions that are unsubstantiated. You think you know better than the people concerned what they should do.


        I am tired and disgusted of hearing all this so I will make it abundantly clear.

        Only a minority of radical fascistic Catalans want independence. You all are falling for the separatist propaganda to present this as a conflict between Spain and Catalonia, when half the Catalans have no problem with being Spanish and no desire to secede, and much less to be condemned to being second class citizens or worse, in a Catalan dictatorship.


        You are all making completely wrong assumptions and grauitous offensive remarks about the Spanish government , who is representative of the Spanish people. Those that call the governments idiots... well, I believe they are describing themselves.

        Saying the police response was brutal is false. This is routine for any public unrest. You make a fundamental error in assuming and parroting that this increases the support for independence. You are forgetting that separatists already hate Spain, driving the hate up one notch is not going to change anything, those people are already lost and out of their mind.


        You are making up things, without taking into account that there's a large silent passive majority that does not back the extremists and is alarmed at the violence. Most sane people are peaceful and cowardly and not interested at all in the violent consequences of escalating a conflict into a civil war.


        You all are failing wether out of ignorance or malice, to notice that this seccesion attempt is not a peaceful democratic movement, but an act of treason, completely unlawful and an aggression against the rights and freedoms of the Catalans that obey the laws and didn't support this. Separatists can try to secede, but then they will have against them half of the population that does want to remain in Spain, and will not submit to the separatist folly.


        The aims of the Catalan separatists are completely unjust and undemocratic as what they aspire to is something like the Ulster or the Baltic countries, a country where the population that is not of the ruling cathegory is condemned to be second class citizens or worse. Not everything is subject to vote. Voting to send Jews to the gas chamber or voting for apartheid is not just nor acceptable.


        You and the likes of you are failing to realize this unjust, unwarranted aggression is creating an enormous backlash and anger among the pro-Spain Catalans and the rest of the Spanish people. It's not the Catalans against oppressive unresponsive bureaucrats in Madrid government, they are facing the wrath of entire Spain, who is clamoring for a much harder line and a total crackdown on the separatists.


        The King's speech line could not be more clear, we are not abandoning the Catalans that want to be Spanish and we will protect you.

        This clash was unavoidable and was set in motion decades ago, this is a total unprovoked aggression on the part of the Catalan separatists.

        If somebody, without any justification or the slightest provocation, insults me, hates me, and tries to rob me then I have every right to jump on him or them and smash his face to pieces. And I would do the same with any foreigner that tried to side with the enemies of Spain.


        For any foreigner that is reading this and lives in Spain, be very careful because if we find you siding with the enemies of Spain you will be treated as an enemy as well.


        And that's all I have to say.

        Just so you know the kind of democrats these separatists they are, in schools, public teachers and students were shaming and harassing the students that are children of civil guard, heaping abuse on them and discriminating them.

        Some brave students made a public protest today against this.


        http://www.abc.es/espana/catalunya/a...6_noticia.html


        It's fortunate that I don't live in Catalonia, because if some Septic did that to my children, I would go to school to have a serious conversation with the teacher involving tripping with doors and falling down the stairs.


        The Catalan septics are one step away from igniting a civil war, but fortunately they will not succeed. Their coup has not any support, and the Basque Nazis already tried for 30 years and besides murdering a thousand people, they didn't achieve a thing. Cracking down on Catalan fascists will be much quicker. If they start killing people, then the retribution will be proportional.
        Yes, yes, We all know you think I'm just another evil leftist American Jew Nazi. You've said so enough times. No need to passive-aggressively bring them up by saying you're not going to bring them up.

        But you are ignoring something far more important: the subjective (there's that word again) nature of political belief and experience means what you seem to treat as the objective and undeniable word of god is far from it.

        As long as one side will treat all Catalonian secessionists as "liberal Nazis", greedy thieves, or pure idiots, then of course it's only going to cause them to dig in their heels. (The hypocrisy in noting that Barcelonas rabid attacks on Spain, often in defiance of reason, are part of the problem without holding up a mirror are just icing on this cake). It doesn't matter that their election was illegal, that their results are debatable at best, or that their actions are, on the whole, in opposition to the rule of law.

        Your post illustrates the nature of the discourse coming out of the public sphere, which has already begun to look for enemies to demonize, people to threaten, and "the other" to blame for everything. It is a reflection for what has been going on in Spain for a while now, with Catalans blaming Madrid for all their problems (laughable) or Madrid burying their head in the sand and ignoring the crisis (incomprehensible).

        Yet if you cannot comprehend that there are many Catalonians who do have issues with Madrid's mishandling of the secessionists, with the years of rule by what they see as a foreign entity, then it is sort of clear just why things have gotten to where they are. Politics are not a one-way street. It doesn't matter that Madrid has the backing of the rule of law and the EU in this regard if the people themselves don't follow it or give it legitimacy.

        Heck, the United States itself was founded by a minority political group objecting to the legal authorities engaged in their protected actions on behalf of the sitting government. Just because King George and Parliament were in power, just because more than half the population of the colonies didn't support independence, didn't stop the thing from exploding - and for many of those who didn't support those radical liberal (you'd probably call them fascists) criminals in Philadelphia to become supporters when the King sent in his soldiers to restore law and order. It doesn't matter how many times they protested "but you broke the law!"

        You don't make people want to get along by dismissing and alienating them. A husband doesn't obtain a happy marriage by using his belt against his wife until she relents - even if the husband sees her as the cause of all their problems. An unhappy marriage isn't fixed by force of arms - and as long as Barcelona are just likened to Nazis (especially of the liberal fascist kind ) then how can one expect there to be common ground?

        Once the other side is demonized with such extremist posturing, once the line is drawn in the sand, then there isn't much room for dialogue or a peaceful resolution. Not that it sounds like compromise is acceptable at all in this environment.

        (That this goes against Barcelona will not be addressed, of course, since one side is invariably "right" and to even consider that the opposition may have some ground to stand on is heresy, but one must still make an effort.)

        In the end, there is something amusing about all the macho bluster and impotent internet threats toward the Catalonians (and their liberal Nazi banker backers ), as if that is going to resolve the situation amicably. With Barcelona rushing blindly towards secession before their bullshit can be questioned fully, and Madrid looking determined to provoke a showdown and play along, it's honestly interesting to see that sort of willful blindness supported at the ground level as well.

        Maybe Madrid and Barcelona really do reflect the will of the people after all.

        Comment


        • Catalan crisis: Spanish court bars MPs' independence move

          Spain's Constitutional Court has suspended next Monday's session of the Catalan parliament, in a bid to pre-empt a possible push for independence.

          The court said such a move would be "a breach of the constitution".

          Earlier Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy warned Catalonia's regional government against declaring independence after a disputed vote last Sunday.

          Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont had indicated that he could make such a declaration at next week's session.

          The court's ruling on Thursday upheld a challenge not from the government in Madrid, but by the Socialists' Party of Catalonia, which opposes secession from Spain.
          http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41514398

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
            This is how they should have played it from the start. Make it clear the vote was illegal and try and pick off key players on criminal charges after the event. No violence, at least not as the initiators of such.
            Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
              This is how they should have played it from the start. Make it clear the vote was illegal and try and pick off key players on criminal charges after the event. No violence, at least not as the initiators of such.
              Indeed. And probably more to the point, they should have taken steps months before to set this up rather than waiting till the very last minute. This was hardly a surprise move - the push for a referendum had been loudly proclaimed for months now.

              Barcelona acted with an illegal vote, but Madrid bungled their response and ended up somewhat validating the secessionists through their own incompetence. It was almost as though they didn't believe Barcelona would actually go through with it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                Indeed. And probably more to the point, they should have taken steps months before to set this up rather than waiting till the very last minute. This was hardly a surprise move - the push for a referendum had been loudly proclaimed for months now.

                Barcelona acted with an illegal vote, but Madrid bungled their response and ended up somewhat validating the secessionists through their own incompetence. It was almost as though they didn't believe Barcelona would actually go through with it.
                The continuous repeating that the referendum is illegal gives the Catalans nowhere to go other than rebellion. This is very dangerous and could lead to widespread civil unrest and even the formation of a resistance movement with the Spanish being seen as an army of occupation. It is also playing into the hands of those who want full independence as the choice is now independence or nothing.
                It was interesting to note the the Catalan firebrigade fought against the Spanish paramilitary police. I suspect that the local Catalan police would mutiny if ordered to take part in the repression.
                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                  The continuous repeating that the referendum is illegal gives the Catalans nowhere to go other than rebellion. This is very dangerous and could lead to widespread civil unrest and even the formation of a resistance movement with the Spanish being seen as an army of occupation. It is also playing into the hands of those who want full independence as the choice is now independence or nothing.
                  It was interesting to note the the Catalan firebrigade fought against the Spanish paramilitary police. I suspect that the local Catalan police would mutiny if ordered to take part in the repression.
                  The Catalans in turn should have taken a path of civil disobedience, strikes etc to insist on a legal referendum. This would likely be a long game, as indeed it already has been. This option is still open to them now of course and they are lucky the Spanish Government played it so badly.
                  Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                    The Catalans in turn should have taken a path of civil disobedience, strikes etc to insist on a legal referendum. This would likely be a long game, as indeed it already has been. This option is still open to them now of course and they are lucky the Spanish Government played it so badly.
                    Possibly but the Spanish had already refused a referendum. The Catalan hand has been strengthened by the referendum. While it was less than perfect, that was due to the Spanish government and more importantly it is the only formal measure of Catalan opinion available. And the fact that so many were willing to vote in the face of widespread intimidation by the Spanish police is illuminating. Those supporting independence can now with some justification claim to be carrying out the will of the people. There is not Basque where only a minority supported independence.
                    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                      The continuous repeating that the referendum is illegal gives the Catalans nowhere to go other than rebellion. This is very dangerous and could lead to widespread civil unrest and even the formation of a resistance movement with the Spanish being seen as an army of occupation. It is also playing into the hands of those who want full independence as the choice is now independence or nothing.
                      It was interesting to note the the Catalan firebrigade fought against the Spanish paramilitary police. I suspect that the local Catalan police would mutiny if ordered to take part in the repression.
                      Well it is illegal, I'm not going to hide that fact. Like the revolution in Ukraine, it certainly didn't follow the strict laws of the land. That the opposition certainly will jump on that as the end all, be all of the equation is more just a facet of human reality.

                      But then, the other facet is that the referendum did happen. Having Madrid pretend as though this was just a power play by a fraction of the population will not put the genie back in the bottle either. The vote was illegal (and doesn't meet many standards for a free and open election, in both directions), but it still happened, and the results are there.

                      Both Barcelona and Madrid need a heavy dose of reality going forward. Barcelona could provoke Madrid if they rush headlong into a true declaration, rather than using it as a pretense for firm and favorable negotiations. Madrid risks making a delicate situation into a disaster if they seek to use force without dialogue to demand compliance.

                      I'm hopeful that things will not explode, but it is possible. Barcelona has the intiative considering the backlash against Madrid, but Madrid certainly has the international support (or at least it does from the western political world). Neither group obtained the figurative political coup needed to truly dictate terms.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                        Possibly but the Spanish had already refused a referendum. The Catalan hand has been strengthened by the referendum. While it was less than perfect, that was due to the Spanish government and more importantly it is the only formal measure of Catalan opinion available. And the fact that so many were willing to vote in the face of widespread intimidation by the Spanish police is illuminating. Those supporting independence can now with some justification claim to be carrying out the will of the people. There is not Basque where only a minority supported independence.
                        It's also not Basque-esque because they haven't resorted to terrorism yet. As long as they pursue non-violent protests and aren't seen as the "bad guys" then they can make a case to the international and European public.

                        But if we see video of Catalans throwing stones at Spaniards or there is true bloodshed on the streets, that advantage can vanish quickly. And it's one of the few advantages they have.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                          Possibly but the Spanish had already refused a referendum. The Catalan hand has been strengthened by the referendum. While it was less than perfect, that was due to the Spanish government and more importantly it is the only formal measure of Catalan opinion available. And the fact that so many were willing to vote in the face of widespread intimidation by the Spanish police is illuminating. Those supporting independence can now with some justification claim to be carrying out the will of the people. There is not Basque where only a minority supported independence.
                          The moral high ground is important in such matters. To function, an independent Catalan State must be recognised by, at least, the EU. I can't see other nations backing them on an illegal result.

                          The key for them is have a vote that is seen an valid by the wider community and that means pressure from the moral high ground on Spain to allow it. If the like of Barceloa FC and their world stars can be mobilised etc, they have a chance. Strikes that paralyse the transport system etc but no violence. Ghandi set the example in such things.
                          Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                            The key for them is have a vote that is seen an valid by the wider community and that means pressure from the moral high ground on Spain to allow it.
                            First the pro-independents have to get Catalonia's own Parliament to approve a referendum!

                            "The law is illegal according to the Catalan Statutes of Autonomy which require a two third majority in the Catalan parliament for any change to Catalonia's status"

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catala...ferendum,_2017

                            Comment


                            • Hello again Surrey. I am still waiting for you to

                              a) Apologize for all the lies you are writing
                              b) Stop lying and shut up because you don't know what you are talking about.


                              Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                              The continuous repeating that the referendum is illegal
                              Personal insult deleted.
                              Please refrain from posting personal insults against other ACG members.
                              If I see this sort of thing again, the entire post will be deleted no matter how long it is.
                              If a similar offence occurs after that, there is a very strong possibility that you'll be banned; probably for much longer than your last ban.
                              And if you still continue after that? Ultimately, it can only end one way.
                              We hate having to take that kind of action. DON'T do this any more, please!
                              ACG Staff

                              It was not even a proper vote , for crying out loud!!

                              It was a farce, some people showing up and stuffing papers in boxes does not make it a proper vote by any means.

                              Ignoring for a moment that is completely illegal and has no binding value, it is not worth even as a poll of independence sentiment.

                              No campaign, no census, no secrecy, no monitoring, no impartial accounting of the votes.

                              You have a very weird understanding of democracy if you give that farce any value



                              gives the Catalans nowhere to go
                              DO NOT DARE SPEAK FOR THE CATALAN PEOPLE THAT WANT TO REMAIN SPANISH AND DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THAT FARCE!!

                              Of course they have plenty of places to go, they can go home, shut up, get over it, work, pay taxes and die already!!


                              other than rebellion.
                              Be my guest. The half of the Catalans that do not want anything to do with this madness and the whole rest of Spain would absolutely love to settle scores with the Catalan fascists that have been running the show for the past 40 years and to put them in their proper place.

                              Unfortunately, it seems that they will back down now that they are realizing the economical consequences of their folly.

                              There's no need to bomb Barcelona or send in the tanks. Spain has the Catalan government caught by the balls, financially speaking, and they have started to squeeze.

                              The major banks are already moving out of Catalonia anda lot of big business are also doing it or preparing to move out.

                              Only people realize they can lose their jobs and their savings, they come to their senses.


                              This is very dangerous
                              Not really. Unless they start doing progroms and lynching pro-Spain catalans, this treason is not going to succeed. The Spanish government by doing nothing is giving them plenty of rope to hang themselves with, figuratively speaking.

                              and could lead to widespread civil unrest and even the formation of a resistance movement with the Spanish being seen as an army of occupation.

                              Only in your war porn masturbatory fantasies. The catalans separatists are like all mobs cowards. Very brave to scream "sons of a sex worker" to the police at their face when they know the cops are under orders of not replying back,or to bully Spanish speaking children at school, but to face up the police, let alone the army? Come on

                              The worst the separatist Basques could come up was, a few hundred terrorists aside, teenagers throwing stones and molotov cocktails at police in weekends. Spain has never had any problem at all with quelling street unrest during the 40 years of democracy, there is really no need to even proclaim the siege state, or even exception siege.

                              General strikes? It would only hurt the catalonian themselves, and political strikes are illegal. In a country with 20% unemployment, nobody is going to risk being fired.


                              And I ensure you that if it comes to that, the army will be welcomed once again in Barcelona as liberators by the loyal Catalans while the separatists flee like the rats they are across the border with France.

                              It is also playing into the hands of those who want full independence as the choice is now independence or nothing.
                              Nothing will be. Spain holds all the cards and can defeat this without even a shot being fired.

                              It was interesting to note the the Catalan firebrigade fought against the Spanish paramilitary police.
                              Stop referring to the Civil Guard as "paramilitary", as it if were a bad thing, they are police.

                              And you are playing again with half-lies and distorted reporting events. That some ******* firefighters were on the side of rioters means nothing, except that as public employees, they will be fired (pun intended)

                              I suspect that the local Catalan police would mutiny if ordered to take part in the repression.
                              Police in all countries do what they are ordered to do. Disobey orders? Hand in your gun and badge and you are under arrest.

                              What do you not realize is that the Catalan separatists are all leftist scum antimilitarist and against any authority, so since there has not been conscription for over 20 years, there's nobody with military training among the traitors, and the Catalan police is mostly made up of former Spanish state police, and ex military. The guy that shot the terrorists in Barcelona was a former Spanish Legion soldier.

                              who they think they are going to side with?

                              If everybody like you that is saying completely crazy and false things knew spanish and bothered to read what's actually happening you would read the Catalan police rank and file are ashamed and angry at the treason of their political appointee chiefs and are apologizing to their mates in the police and civil guard for letting them down. Once the Spanish government takes over control of them and removes the traitors from their ranks, they will thrown themselves with gusto onto the protesters. The Catalan police is much more violent than the Spanish state police.




                              I have to go, but again wake up an realize that this is not a contest between Spain and Catalonia, is going to be like Northern Ireland, a civil war in Catalonia between the traitors and the loyalists. The radical Catalans are a minority, but they make a lot of noise, once the apathetic silent majority sees the danger they are being led to, and see that Spain will intervene to protect the pro-Spain Catalans, they will all flock to the winner side, as it always happen.



                              The Spanish government is just waiting for these fascists to either back down or get crazy and do something really stupid, like killing other Catalans or policemen when the world realizes the true face of Catalan fascists, then it will be the moment of crushing them, if it comes to that.
                              Last edited by panther3485; 07 Oct 17, 06:58.
                              CANNON, n.
                              An instrument employed in the rectification of national boundaries.

                              The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce

                              http://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/

                              http://pinturasdeguerra.tumblr.com/

                              http://pinturasdeguerra-mar.tumblr.com/

                              Comment


                              • This analysis is good because most people are in agreement with, it, from Forocoches, the largest online forum in Spain, with over a million users, wich would be like saying it's something like reddit. It's a very good summary and overview of the events, written in an accessible language for the average uneducated "six-pack Josť"

                                It does a great job of covering the main points and possible outcomes. For those that want to know what is really happening in Catalonia, instead of the fantasies of others.

                                Google trans, with editing and notes by myself

                                UPDATE 6/10:
                                The separatist leaders are shitting themselves, they are much more afraid than yesterday and probably much less than they will be on Monday. But to this day there is a 99% probability that Puigdemont will run for the hills and declare the UDI (Unilateral Declaration of Independence). Let's go in parts.

                                COUNTING THE VOTES : manipulated but not able, confirm what was said: not even one million and a half votes YES (to indepenencde) and less than 30% (REAL) support of independence in the province of Barcelona (which is the one that matters). With these numbers they know that it is impossible to be independent, even though everyone acknowledged independence. The Catalans who feel Spanish themselves would boycott the republic from day one, and then the separatists would have to resort to repression to keep the pro-Spanish in line. In addition, they know that the first 6 months would be horrible for everyone, and the average Catalan has a swell living now. Even so, next point.

                                UDI : Puigdemont thinks that it is his only exit and that will allow him to have a position of force to negotiate with Spain, but within its own party (Convergence) and even in ERC they think that it is a monumental f***up. The reality is that Oriol would now sign whatever to continue as before (with the current statute, level of autonomy, possibly even remaining as president). They fear that this is the beginning of the end of Catalan nationalism. Now it seems impossible, but they suspect that Europe [read Germany] is going to brutally punish regional nationalisms and make an example of Catalonia. That is why they think that Rajoy [Spain's president] continues to let them do (they are desperately frustrated because he is doing absolutely nothing): the long-term goal is to put and end to separatisms

                                EUROPE: As I said, they suspect that Rajoy's strategy is agreed with Merkel and Macron (and supported by the USA), and that causes them panic, because the violent reppression that will follow will be with the approval of the whole world. They believe that if France is involved, France "closes borders" with Catalonia [that is, they would not let pass anybody, cutting off their escape] and they assume that Spain would also control the border [isolating Catalonia]. The European funds to Catalonia would be suspended until the situation was solved, which would drown financially the primary sector (farmers are independentist) [agriculture is subsidized by Europe]. Tourism would go into a coma, and industrial production would plummet. And all this would be repeated a thousand times in all the newspapers of Europe. Violence, empty supermarkets, brother fighting against brother, police everywhere, unemployment, bankruptcies ... Photos of that until the media get bored of it.

                                PRESS: going to label the UDI as crazy. Practically no support at world level. They will start comparing separatists with totalitarian lunatics (come on, that's what they are!), and all the stories about nasty stuff that we all know about and is happening will begin to cross borders. There may even be comparisons with the Nazis. And all this the colleague knows because apparently the foreign media are beginning to receive information from other sources that previously did not have (Spanish government and their own countries), in addition the separatists are exposing themselves and showing their true colors.

                                CIVIL WAR: is a possible scenario after the UDI, but would not be "Spanish" against "Catalans", but "Catalans with the help of some of the Mossos [Catalan autonomous police]" against "Catalans with the help of other mossos, police and civil guards" . The army would only protect the important places (port, airport, etc). That scenario is a hard on for the CUP [The most extreme and radical of the separatists], because it really is one in which it could achieve independence (at the cost of many dead, of course). They know it's a war they can not win, but think it's one they can not lose. What happens is that the independentists of Convergencia and ERC do not want their children to die, so they may not tighten the rope too much. Remember that these we are talking about are upper crust privileged people [who have everything to lose unlike the lowlife scum]
                                In spite of everything, there may be an escalation of violence that ultimately leads us all into a disaster for Spain and, above all, for Catalonia.

                                THE MOST PROBABLE SCENARIO (even for them): declare UDI. The government, with calm, is stopping the coup. A mess happens in the streets; the cops beat the rioters with truncheons with the blessing of foreign governments though they look bad on twitter. It ends up with the Spanish gov controlling the Mossos and in a few months everything returns to calm, because it is the Catalans themselves who want it to be so. Then God knows, but the seps fear that the government will end up outlawing the traitor parties (Convergence, ERC and CUP). The thing would return to calm when some constitutional party (Citizens of Catalonia?) asssumes government; in that case they think that Rajoy would yield and condone part of the Catalan debt to relieve tension. The reality is that all this can run aground and turn Catalonia into a ruinous community in the medium term.

                                BUSINESS: Whatever happens the Catalan economy is going to sink (and it will affect Spain a lot). BBVA and Santander [biggest Spanish banks] are prepared to take over Caixa and Sabadell [Catalan banks being hurt badly by the flight of customers owing to fear and in retaliation for their support of the Catalan political chaste], which no matter they have moved their headquarters [to spain] are in KO (knocked out). Take it for granted that if the situation continues to deteriorate there will be an hostile takeover like it was done with Popular bank [Spanish bank that recently went bankrupt and was absorbed by competitors] sooner or later (I give this warning for whoever who has shares in these banks). This operation would be seen with approval eyes for Europe. The rest of the companies: there is not going to be one left in Catalonia and, worse, they will not return in years. Forget any planned investment, and of course the European Medicines Agency goes elsewhere (when Barcelona was placed first or second).

                                MASS RALLY OF SUNDAY (in Catalonia, in support of Spain and against separatism) I repeat that is very important. If it is massive, it can change the situation and force Puigdemont to make his own government to back down (very unlikely because they are deathly afraid of the violent reaction of the CUP, but possible). If it is a failure, it will embolden them.
                                Last edited by von Junzt; 06 Oct 17, 18:25.
                                CANNON, n.
                                An instrument employed in the rectification of national boundaries.

                                The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce

                                http://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/

                                http://pinturasdeguerra.tumblr.com/

                                http://pinturasdeguerra-mar.tumblr.com/

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X