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Polish media reports plan to strip more powers from EU member states

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  • Polish media reports plan to strip more powers from EU member states

    The foreign ministers of France and Germany have proposed creating a “European superstate” limiting the powers of individual members following Britain’s referendum decision to leave the EU, Polish public broadcaster TVP Info has reported.
    The document in which the proposals appear is to be presented to Visegrad Group countries meeting in Prague on Monday by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, TVP Info said, adding that the document was an "ultimatum".
    TVP Info said the proposals would mean members of a superstate would in practice have no right to their own army, to a separate criminal code or a separate tax system, and would not have their own currency.
    In addition, TVP Info said, member states would lose control over their own borders and procedures for admitting and relocating refugees.
    http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/2...9-causes-alarm
    http://uatoday.tv/politics/european-...-u-680410.html
    http://www.tvp.info/25939371/nasz-ne...ncji-i-niemiec


  • #2
    Oh dam . I wish I'd voted in now.

    Comment


    • #3
      You mean the media controlled by the Polish government — who isn't btw shy about the move they have made regarding it (proud and pleased more like) — which is the selfsame Polish government that is under threat of sanctions from the EU, for overriding the principles of the division of power and rule of law as they need to apply in a liberal democracy?

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh yay-the Germans want to create a European super-state.

        Again.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
          the selfsame Polish government that is under threat of sanctions from the EU, for overriding the principles of the division of power and rule of law as they need to apply in a liberal democracy?
          You mean the selfsame EU which turned a blind eye when the pro-EU Civic Platform tried doing the same thing - appointing 5 supreme court justices according to a self-serving law it had just passed and just prior to a general election it knew it was going to lose - replacing two judges whose terms had not even expired yet...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
            You mean the selfsame EU which turned a blind eye when the pro-EU Civic Platform tried doing the same thing - appointing 5 supreme court justices according to a self-serving law it had just passed and just prior to a general election it knew it was going to lose - replacing two judges whose terms had not even expired yet...
            Never argue with a fanatic.

            It just gets your name noted down for a bunk at the camps.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

            Comment


            • #7
              Look Orban himself is on record opposing the principles of the liberal democracy. There's nothing terribly unclear about it.

              Hungary and Poland are fast developing into illiberal democracies, i.e. countries where the constitition is effectively made subordinate to the imcumbent party, and where rule of law is also suspended, since the judiciary branch of government is made subservient to the exective. It's a situation fast approaching the kind of "tyranny by the majority" Americans otherwise puport to dread. AND it comes in a situation where the Brexit referendum should have made it abundantly clear that, no, the EU has surprisingly little power to even influence national governments.

              Sure, the EU has an image problem. It becomes very apparent when attempts to defend rule of law and the division of power, against a situation of the "tyranny of the majority" kind developing, renders you an automatic slating as the Bad Guys.

              The what-aboutism among the defenders of this kind of development is impressive in this case, I'll grant.

              Funnily enough Poland and Hungary, even with the present governments and the things they get up to, are pretty big on the idea of their EU membership. But that's a cash deal for them then. They will take the money, while demonstrating their disregard for any other principle the EU is based on.

              It's not the EU making them do any of it. Though I have no doubt once they have accomplished what they have set out to do, the EU will be roundly blamed for not stopping them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                Look Orban himself is on record opposing the principles of the liberal democracy. There's nothing terribly unclear about it.

                Hungary and Poland are fast developing into illiberal democracies, i.e. countries where the constitition is effectively made subordinate to the imcumbent party, and where rule of law is also suspended, since the judiciary branch of government is made subservient to the exective. It's a situation fast approaching the kind of "tyranny by the majority" Americans otherwise puport to dread. AND it comes in a situation where the Brexit referendum should have made it abundantly clear that, no, the EU has surprisingly little power to even influence national governments.

                Sure, the EU has an image problem. It becomes very apparent when attempts to defend rule of law and the division of power, against a situation of the "tyranny of the majority" kind developing, renders you an automatic slating as the Bad Guys.

                The what-aboutism among the defenders of this kind of development is impressive in this case, I'll grant.

                Funnily enough Poland and Hungary, even with the present governments and the things they get up to, are pretty big on the idea of their EU membership. But that's a cash deal for them then. They will take the money, while demonstrating their disregard for any other principle the EU is based on.

                It's not the EU making them do any of it. Though I have no doubt once they have accomplished what they have set out to do, the EU will be roundly blamed for not stopping them.
                You've successfully moved from discussing the the topic of the thread to discussing Poland and now Hungary. None of this has anything to do with the document which the Polish public broadcaster claims will be presented to the Visegrad 4 group today.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
                  You've successfully moved from discussing the the topic of the thread to discussing Poland and now Hungary. None of this has anything to do with the document which the Polish public broadcaster claims will be presented to the Visegrad 4 group today.
                  If those were of actual interest, there are other channels, without the specific spin to things, they can be accessed through.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                    If those were of actual interest, there are other channels, without the specific spin to things, they can be accessed through.
                    Oh look. Here it is being reported in the Austrian press now. I guess that means it is true since it is being reported in German.
                    http://www.salzburg.com/nachrichten/...brexit-202523/

                    The only difference being that the Polish source actually includes excerpts from the document under proposal - and not just a bunch of vague euphemisms like in the Austrian news report - which make it clear that Germany and France are pursuing a completely integrated European military and security structure, a permanent EU military-security chain of command and a permanent EU military force, EU intelligence bureau, "harmonisation" of criminal codes, and a fully integrated policy on immigration which would eliminate national responses.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just going to leave this here. In case someone objects the news being limited to "Polish spin media".

                      Auf Deutsch.

                      And the Polish government and ruling party are EU to the bone, their rhetorics and empty proclamations aside.

                      Who can blame them?


                      And these are just direct financial contributions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My worst jump story:
                        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                        No lie.

                        ~
                        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                          Oh dam . I wish I'd voted in now.
                          You're not in the safe zone yet.

                          But time for me to mail order one of these.

                          My worst jump story:
                          My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                          As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                          No lie.

                          ~
                          "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                          -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Eurocorps, which has been around for over 20 years is under control of EU members and not each country that provides personal.

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocorps


                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                              Eurocorps, which has been around for over 20 years is under control of EU members and not each country that provides personal.
                              The Eurocorps comprises around 1000 men and lay outside of member-states' own security and defense structures. The proposal allegedly set forth in the Franco-German document being presented to the Visegrad group envisions a "common security and defense policy" at all levels and a fully-integrated chain of command regarding military and security forces. This is far beyond the Eurocorps.

                              Comment

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