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  • US Army fails in NATO tank completion.

    So basically, the US didn't even get a place.... Germans came first, then Denmark and in third was Poland.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-...6-5/?r=AU&IR=T

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ainst-germany/



    Last edited by Achtung Baby; 23 May 16, 01:59.
    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
    Ernest Hemingway.

    "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
    Mark Twain.

  • #2
    Euro propaganda

    Our unique Leclerc available had vapor-lock troubles and wasn't able to join the competition
    That rug really tied the room together

    Comment


    • #3
      http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=170266

      subject posted in another thread.
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        Totally missed that.
        "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
        Ernest Hemingway.

        "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
        Mark Twain.

        Comment


        • #5
          Not surprising. With the actual war stuff winding down, a lot of your best tank crews are hitting their end of contract time.....and with few combat deployments and bonuses, they're getting out. Plus there has been some talk, founded or not, about the Army having some serious training issues right now.

          And I can attest that the wartime US Military is a lot different than the peacetime version. Paperwork is rearing its head with a vengeance, along with sensitivity classes and such......without combat deployments to keep them sharp, the cutting edge is likely being dulled at the rapid rate..... Paperwork BS and such is why I got out, along with a lot of the other junior NCOs that were my peers.
          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
            Not surprising. With the actual war stuff winding down, a lot of your best tank crews are hitting their end of contract time.....and with few combat deployments and bonuses, they're getting out. Plus there has been some talk, founded or not, about the Army having some serious training issues right now.

            And I can attest that the wartime US Military is a lot different than the peacetime version. Paperwork is rearing its head with a vengeance, along with sensitivity classes and such......without combat deployments to keep them sharp, the cutting edge is likely being dulled at the rapid rate..... Paperwork BS and such is why I got out, along with a lot of the other junior NCOs that were my peers.
            Very true. Traditionally when a war ends the warriors get out and succeed at other endeavors, while the dregs crawl out of whatever rear-area job they were hiding in and indulge their bureaucratic notions until they are eligible for a pension.

            When all you have is one-termers and a bunch of shiftless lifers who couldn't cut it on the outside, you cannot expect great things.

            I think that if you set hard, realistic training standards for units, and had them tested each year by outside inspectors, say drawn from other NATO forces, and if the unit did not meet X standard the lifers in the units did not get to count that past year towards retirement, you would see an Army that had a much more battle-ready force. Staffed by real soldiers, and not the welfare-in-uniform types that make up so much of the peacetime lifers.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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            • #7
              Since ehen is not winning loosing. I all so like how the tope 3 are all driving Leos.


              A Canadian i knew said there tank crews regualy got the better of regular us army and that the national guard where the real challenge. Wonder if this was Canadian pride or truth.
              you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

              CPO Mzinyati

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by andrewza View Post
                Since ehen is not winning loosing. I all so like how the tope 3 are all driving Leos.


                A Canadian i knew said there tank crews regualy got the better of regular us army and that the national guard where the real challenge. Wonder if this was Canadian pride or truth.
                Back until Desert Storm, you had NG tank crews that had served together for ten or twelve years. While they didn't get as much training per year as the Regulars, they had the benefit of accrued time.
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
                  So basically, the US didn't even get a place.... Germans came first, then Denmark and in third was Poland.

                  http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-...6-5/?r=AU&IR=T

                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ainst-germany/



                  Not to worry!

                  A good quote:

                  Competition such as this should be taken with a pinch of salt. For example when the British army fielded the Challenger 1 tank , it was entered into the NATO –Canadian Army Trophy- and did badly. really badly. This was down to simply not giving the troops selected time to practice. Yet only 4 years later, the Chally 1 in Kuwait performed brilliantly, outdoing every other tank going for no losses and recording the longest ranged tank kill in history:
                  ” 4,700m first round FIN kill. It was a supreme technical achievement for man and machine. 4,700m, a shade under 3 miles, is more than three times the 1,200m battle range of the Challenger. The shot is written up in books, sometimes incorrectly, with one book saying it was a Depleted Uranium (DU) round, it wasn’t, it was a normal service FIN round while another book said it was at longer range, it wasn’t, it was 4,700m. I believe that it is the longest range direct fire kinetic round kill ever achieved by a tank on the battlefield.”

                  "Back to the article, the Danes,Germans are troops burdened by the diktats of political correctness , thankfully the Poles aren’t and neither are the US. Yes on Paper, the the first two look good in a fight, but having served alongside all 4 Nations, I would have the Yanks, Poles,Danes and then the Germans to watch my back
                  Paul
                  ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                  All human ills he can subdue,
                  Or with a bauble or medal
                  Can win mans heart for you;
                  And many a blessing know to stew
                  To make a megloamaniac bright;
                  Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                  The Pixie is a little shite.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    Back until Desert Storm, you had NG tank crews that had served together for ten or twelve years. While they didn't get as much training per year as the Regulars, they had the benefit of accrued time.
                    Plus, they served in the same unit together, drank beer on the weekends together, and didn't get PCSed every 3 years.....AJ you definitely know how much more smoothly things run when you're working with the guys you work with constantly....you just develop that synergy where you don't even have to talk, you know what the other guy is doing.
                    Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                      Plus, they served in the same unit together, drank beer on the weekends together, and didn't get PCSed every 3 years.....AJ you definitely know how much more smoothly things run when you're working with the guys you work with constantly....you just develop that synergy where you don't even have to talk, you know what the other guy is doing.
                      Very true. My agency tries very hard not to split up squads, sections, or details for that exact reason.
                      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not sure I understand the title of this thread.

                        Shouldn't it be "Germany wins" .... or has the US won so many times over the years that an other result is seen as a fluke?

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                        • #13
                          It is a very strange heading. And no the USA does not win all the time.
                          you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                          CPO Mzinyati

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It is getting harder for the US National Guard to win these competitions. They have converted a number of Armor Battalions to Light Infantry since OIF. The National Guard Brigades also have only two Combined Arms Battalions compared to the Regular Army that has three. I am waiting for the announcement that they will start raising those Battalions.

                            Louisiana's 256th Mechanized Brigade used to have one Armor and two Mech Inf Battalions. When it was converted to Light Infantry, they made the Armor Battalion into a Cavalry Squadron. One Troop flies Drones!

                            Pruitt
                            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                            • #15
                              What is there logic about turning NG battlions from heavy to light. It makes zero sense. The NG is the guys who deploy after the fighting started. They should land in Europe with waves of tanks and IFV not strykers. The permant force should have the light brigades for rapid deployments and minor conflicts not the NG.
                              you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                              CPO Mzinyati

                              Comment

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