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Ireland's revolutionary fight for freedom started 100 years ago today

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  • Ireland's revolutionary fight for freedom started 100 years ago today

    This day, Easter Monday, 100 years ago, a group of men in military uniform and formation started a doomed rising on the streets of Dublin against the most powerful Empire in the world. The bloody and rootless reaction by British military forces fanned the tiny flame lit by those men and women, resulting a few years later in our freedom for the first time in centuries.
    They are the founding fathers of this nation and I salute them.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

  • #2
    Brave men. Should never have been necessary.

    Stupid thing is that if the British had merely imprisoned the revolutionaries rather than executing them they might have spared themselves a nasty little war and a lot of bitterness. Robbed Ireland of some fine leaders.
    Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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    • #3
      I once read that with the whole world war going on, the royal answer could be nothing but brutal. 1915 had seen Imperial Germany drive the Russians back, while British and French offenses on the western front were not successful, meaning for 1916 a powerful German offensive could be expected. In such a fight, any uprising, any insurrection, would be put down as swiftly and effectively as possible. Though I must confess, I know little about the matter at hand and what actually happened in Ireland.
      Reaction to the 2016 Munich shootings:
      Europe: "We are shocked and support you in these harsh times, we stand by you."
      USA: "We will check people from Germany extra-hard and it is your own damn fault for being so stupid."

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      • #4
        While the idea of freeing themselves from the British yoke certainly appeals to me, the Irish habit of setting off bombs and penchant for soft targets has left me cold.

        Still, to each their national holiday.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
          While the idea of freeing themselves from the British yoke certainly appeals to me, the Irish habit of setting off bombs and penchant for soft targets has left me cold.

          Still, to each their national holiday.
          It would be good if you spent 5 minutes reading up on the topic before you posted such an ignorant and ill informed comment.
          Men in uniform occupying strategic targets, fighting soldiers and surrendering because of mounting civilian casualties due to the British using a gun boat to bombard the city center have nothing in common with provisional IRA terrorists.
          The take no prisoners order from the General Low (See London Daily Telegraph link) resulted in the execution of many men and boys who had no involvment in the Rising. The ignorant labeling of the insurgents by British officials as "Sinn Feiners", even though none of the men involved were in Sinn Fein, meant that they got subsequent support in the next general election.
          Last edited by E.D. Morel; 29 Mar 16, 03:54.
          "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
          validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
          "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Acheron View Post
            I once read that with the whole world war going on, the royal answer could be nothing but brutal. 1915 had seen Imperial Germany drive the Russians back, while British and French offenses on the western front were not successful, meaning for 1916 a powerful German offensive could be expected. In such a fight, any uprising, any insurrection, would be put down as swiftly and effectively as possible. Though I must confess, I know little about the matter at hand and what actually happened in Ireland.
            The problem wasn't simply with the way the rebellion was put down. That was bad publicity, but there were plenty in Ireland who saw the revolutionaries as the bad guys. Crowds in Dublin actually jeered some of the men as they were led away by British soldiers. Remember there were hundreds of thousands of Irishmen from all communities serving in WW1, so even Catholic Irish were not as sympathetic as you might think.

            The big problem was the executions that took place after combat finished. While understandable in the context of war & the collusion with Germany, it was an exceedingly stupid thing to do. Executing the leaders & others did more to turn public opinion than putting down the rebellion. Had they left them in jail it might have been possible to manage a peaceful devolution of power that kept Ireland in the UK or awarded independence peacefully on the same terms as obtained in 1921. A bill to do that had been passed by Parliament in 1914 but held over for the duration of the war. Of course, the issue of Ulster would have been difficult to manage.
            Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BF69 View Post
              . Had they left them in jail it might have been possible to manage a peaceful devolution of power that kept Ireland in the UK or awarded independence peacefully on the same terms as obtained in 1921. A bill to do that had been passed by Parliament in 1914 but held over for the duration of the war. Of course, the issue of Ulster would have been difficult to manage.
              Itís worth noting that the UVF (Ulster Volunteer Force), a Unionist paramilitary organisation, has been formed with the expressed objective of armed insurrection in the event of Home Rule being implemented. Therefore the first explicit threat of armed violence against what passed for democratic rule was from Ulster Unionists. Itís also of note that they were armed with German rifles.
              The Home Rule Act gave little real autonomy to Ireland and would have functioned like the Welsh Assembly.
              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                The problem wasn't simply with the way the rebellion was put down. That was bad publicity, but there were plenty in Ireland who saw the revolutionaries as the bad guys. Crowds in Dublin actually jeered some of the men as they were led away by British soldiers. Remember there were hundreds of thousands of Irishmen from all communities serving in WW1, so even Catholic Irish were not as sympathetic as you might think.

                The big problem was the executions that took place after combat finished. While understandable in the context of war & the collusion with Germany, it was an exceedingly stupid thing to do. Executing the leaders & others did more to turn public opinion than putting down the rebellion. Had they left them in jail it might have been possible to manage a peaceful devolution of power that kept Ireland in the UK or awarded independence peacefully on the same terms as obtained in 1921. A bill to do that had been passed by Parliament in 1914 but held over for the duration of the war. Of course, the issue of Ulster would have been difficult to manage.
                Exactly so.
                And the tragedy was that it might have been so different. Gladstone came up with a Home Rule Bill in 1886 which, if carried, might have saved generations of bitterness. Again, the outbreak of WW1 deferred another move for devolution, guided by Irish leader John Redmond ,was in prospect ,despite the enormous difficulties involving Ulster and the Curragh "Mutiny ". The re-establishment of a parliament in Dublin (and Belfast) might have been gradually fine- tuned the separation of powers to everybody's satisfaction.

                "Might" of course, is the operative word.

                With the wisdom of hindsight, it can be seen that the executions of the rebel leaders was a colossal mistake. They turned these brave men into martyrs overnight. On the other hand Britain was fighting a very grim war at the time with thousand of Irish volunteers (there was no conscription) fighting alongside the Ulstermen in the British Army. This perhaps explains the rationale behind the executions while not excusing them.
                "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                Samuel Johnson.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                  Exactly so.
                  And the tragedy was that it might have been so different. Gladstone came up with a Home Rule Bill in 1886 which, if carried, might have saved generations of bitterness. Again, the outbreak of WW1 deferred another move for devolution, guided by Irish leader John Redmond ,was in prospect ,despite the enormous difficulties involving Ulster and the Curragh "Mutiny ". The re-establishment of a parliament in Dublin (and Belfast) might have been gradually fine- tuned the separation of powers to everybody's satisfaction.

                  "Might" of course, is the operative word.

                  With the wisdom of hindsight, it can be seen that the executions of the rebel leaders was a colossal mistake. They turned these brave men into martyrs overnight. On the other hand Britain was fighting a very grim war at the time with thousand of Irish volunteers (there was no conscription) fighting alongside the Ulstermen in the British Army. This perhaps explains the rationale behind the executions while not excusing them.
                  The "Take no prisoners" order from General Law would have led to a considerable shift in public opinion.

                  As a side note I do think there should be a memorial to the Sherwood Foresters, a regiment so inexperienced that some of them had to be shown how to fire and reload their rifles after their disembarked in Dublin. 28 of them were killed and over 200 injured at Mount Street Bridge when the idiotic General Low ordered them to advance and take the bridge at all costs even though it was of no strategic importance and there was another bridge they could have used a few hundred yards away.
                  They were victims of the rebellion as much as any others.
                  Last edited by E.D. Morel; 29 Mar 16, 06:37.
                  "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                  validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                  "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A remembrance wall has been opened in Glasnevin Cemetery, the burial site of most of the 1916 leaders, listing the names of all those who died during the rising. The names are listed alphabetically and include both the rebels and British soldiers who died.
                    I think it’s a fitting memorial and an acknowledgement that eventually politics becomes history and that allows us all to move on.
                    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                      As a side note I do think there should be a memorial to the Sherwood Foresters, a regiment so inexperienced that some of them had to be shown how to fire and reload their rifles after their disembarked in Dublin. 28 of them were killed and over 200 injured at Mount Street Bridge when the idiotic General Low ordered them to advance and take the bridge at all costs even though it was of no strategic importance and there was another bridge they could have used a few hundred yards away.
                      They were victims of the rebellion as much as any others.
                      Apparently - not sure how true this is - that many of the British soldiers assumed, even when embarking, that they were fighting on the Front in France, given how sudden the Rising was and hurried the British response was.

                      Notably, the Royal Dublin Fusiliers possibly did the best out of the British regiments during the Easter fighting by virtue of knowing the city.

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                      • #12
                        I did the walking tour when I was in Dublin. It was good and entertaining, but I'm always leary of the fun factor in any walking tour. So I purchased a book and read it on my trip. Still have it.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Biscuit View Post
                          I did the walking tour when I was in Dublin. It was good and entertaining, but I'm always leary of the fun factor in any walking tour. So I purchased a book and read it on my trip. Still have it.
                          Never mind walking - Dublin now has these done-up buses touring the streets:





                          The best bus tour, at least in terms of the bus, has to be the Viking Splash Tour, though, for sheer goofiness:

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                          • #14
                            Northern Unionist Jim Allister said that the Easter Rising "some foreign old grubby rebellion"
                            I love the reply from the Irish economist David McWilliams;
                            Youtube

                            (I can't get the YouTube link thingie to work)
                            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by …ire_Ascendant View Post
                              Never mind walking - Dublin now has these done-up buses touring the streets:





                              The best bus tour, at least in terms of the bus, has to be the Viking Splash Tour, though, for sheer goofiness:

                              I never knew I had so many options. I did do the bus where you can hop on and off to get around Dublin for a couple of days. The weather was good, and I want to say my bus was topless!

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