Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Migrants break down Macedonia fence on Greek border

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Migrants break down Macedonia fence on Greek border

    A crowd of migrants has broken down a barbed-wire fence on the Macedonia-Greece border using a steel pole as a battering ram.
    TV footage showed migrants pushing against the fence at Idomeni, ripping away barbed wire, as Macedonian police let off tear gas to force them away.
    A section of fence was smashed open with a metal signpost. It is not clear whether any migrants got through.
    Many of those trying to reach northern Europe are Syrian and Iraqi refugees.
    About 7,000 people are stuck on the Greek side of the border, as Macedonia is letting very few in. Many have been camping in squalid conditions for a week or more, with little food or medical help.
    The chaos on Monday erupted as hundreds of people pushed their way past Greek police to reach the gate used to let trains through at the border crossing.
    The protesters shouted "Open the border!" and threw stones at Macedonian riot police, while one group rammed the gate with the metal sign. Police responded by firing rounds of tear gas to force them back, before reinforcing the barrier.
    Cap on numbers

    Macedonia and some other Balkan countries have erected fences in an attempt to reduce the influx of migrants, after more than a million reached Germany last year.
    Greece is angry with Austria for having imposed a cap on migrant numbers. The crisis has left Greece shouldering much of the burden of housing migrants arriving in the EU from Turkey.
    Many are refugees fleeing war in the Middle East, while others are escaping human rights abuses in Afghanistan, Eritrea and other conflict zones.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35687257

    Here we have people trying to tear down a border fence to demand illegal entry, should they not be deported out of hand? If the EU had had its fill of migrants why not ship the invaders back to the M/E?
    Credo quia absurdum.


    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

  • #2
    This sort of thing always baffles me. That angry mobs are allowed to get to this point. You'd think common sense says the second they look like they're trying to tear the fence down it would be guns out everybody step away from the fence! Good for the Macedonians for holding the line but I could have easily seen this going badly. This sort of thing jusy proves they're on the right side of that wall. There's clearly no respect for border or the law among this crowd.
    "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
      This sort of thing always baffles me. That angry mobs are allowed to get to this point. You'd think common sense says the second they look like they're trying to tear the fence down it would be guns out everybody step away from the fence! Good for the Macedonians for holding the line but I could have easily seen this going badly. This sort of thing jusy proves they're on the right side of that wall. There's clearly no respect for border or the law among this crowd.
      Walk a mile in their shoes. Might change your POV. MAYBE
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        Walk a mile in their shoes. Might change your POV. MAYBE
        Which ones the women and children legitimately fleeing violence, or the economic migrants and jihadists hiding among them?

        In all seriousness though, regardless of how many miles they've walked it doesn't mean that rules and laws don't apply to them. If I went broke that doesn't give me the right to break into my neighbor's house and eat all his food. If I did that I'd rightly go to jail. Europe is already doing FAR more than its fair share for many of these people and those country's have the right to decide how many people they let it. In this case Macedonia decides, not the angry mob. They don't have a right to enter the country, it is a privilege that Macedonia can offer them if it chooses to. As I said, hardship does not put you above the law or entitle you to someone else's property. Especially when you get violent when they aren't as charitable as you'd like them to be.

        I will concede that I wouldn't be walking in their shoes though. That's because if I was a Syrian I'd be fighting for the side I most believed in, not rioting for handouts in Greece.
        "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
          This sort of thing always baffles me. That angry mobs are allowed to get to this point. You'd think common sense says the second they look like they're trying to tear the fence down it would be guns out everybody step away from the fence! Good for the Macedonians for holding the line but I could have easily seen this going badly. This sort of thing jusy proves they're on the right side of that wall. There's clearly no respect for border or the law among this crowd.
          Try to imagine the global reaction if some of those illegal immigrants were to be shot at that border. Little Macedonia would be crushed by the media and politicians in the West.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Imperial View Post
            Try to imagine the global reaction if some of those illegal immigrants were to be shot at that border. Little Macedonia would be crushed by the media and politicians in the West.
            Oh trust me I know. I'm not saying just Macedonia I'm saying everywhere. The reaction would be insane and it would be wrong. The world is already mad because they used tear gas. There's no pleasing these people, what should Macedonia have used to hold them back, happy thoughts?

            Angry mobs like that can't be allowed to get out of control whether they are trying to tear down a border or burn down a midwestern town. If they escalate into a violent mob security forces need to be able to out escalate them to maintain control of the situation up to and including lethal force. When that is off the table and the mob knows it the game is up and they will be able to shirk any law they want. That's what the bleeding heart international reaction would approve of letting them run wild. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying start shooting into the mob but displaying firearms and explicitly threatening to use force goes a long way toward changing the mob's risk/reward calculus. Worst case you follow through on that threat with one or two examples and most of them will suddenly have somewhere else to be. Letting people riot is never an acceptable option.
            "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

            Comment


            • #7
              Perhaps paint ball guns with a indelible dry so you can sort out the ones who are trying to break down the fence? Then you go out and arrest and deport them to some far away place.
              Credo quia absurdum.


              Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Imperial View Post
                Try to imagine the global reaction if some of those illegal immigrants were to be shot at that border. Little Macedonia would be crushed by the media and politicians in the West.
                Sadly, yes. Look at what happened to Hungary.
                ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                  Walk a mile in their shoes. Might change your POV. MAYBE
                  It's true of course. If I were in the Muslim world and had a shot at Europe, I'd be there at the gates.

                  Taken to its logical conclusion though, Europe will slowly be dragged down until it resembles the Muslim world, at which point migrants have no motivation to travel. This is a process that has already started and in our democracies we shall have to see how much people allow it to continue.
                  Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                    It's true of course. If I were in the Muslim world and had a shot at Europe, I'd be there at the gates.

                    Taken to its logical conclusion though, Europe will slowly be dragged down until it resembles the Muslim world, at which point migrants have no motivation to travel. This is a process that has already started and in our democracies we shall have to see how much people allow it to continue.
                    I'm afraid so. We can't absorb this without very severe consequences for our societies. This problem has to be solved at its source . Doing what feels good isn't the same as doing good.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                      It's true of course. If I were in the Muslim world and had a shot at Europe, I'd be there at the gates.

                      Taken to its logical conclusion though, Europe will slowly be dragged down until it resembles the Muslim world, at which point migrants have no motivation to travel. This is a process that has already started and in our democracies we shall have to see how much people allow it to continue.
                      And that's the thing nobody seems willing to admit. People assume that if we can only get these people out of places like Syria then they'll be OK. Thing is they never think of how Syria got that way in the first place. The problem isn't Syria its the people who live their and their culture/religion. Moving them to Europe won't lift then up so much as drag Europe down until it is no different than the places they left.
                      "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Perhaps we should have a sticky thread about the migrant crisis. I'm thinking it may've a drastic effect on the EU, laws concerning refugee status, and the status of governments. I can see various leaders being booted over their stance on allowing a flood of people into their countries when the refugees have no cultural ties.

                        Anyway the UN says a disaster is looming. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35696152

                        I say this already is a disaster...
                        Credo quia absurdum.


                        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                          And that's the thing nobody seems willing to admit. People assume that if we can only get these people out of places like Syria then they'll be OK. Thing is they never think of how Syria got that way in the first place. The problem isn't Syria its the people who live their and their culture/religion. Moving them to Europe won't lift then up so much as drag Europe down until it is no different than the places they left.
                          I'm afraid so

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                            And that's the thing nobody seems willing to admit. People assume that if we can only get these people out of places like Syria then they'll be OK. Thing is they never think of how Syria got that way in the first place. The problem isn't Syria its the people who live their and their culture/religion. Moving them to Europe won't lift then up so much as drag Europe down until it is no different than the places they left.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                              And that's the thing nobody seems willing to admit. People assume that if we can only get these people out of places like Syria then they'll be OK. Thing is they never think of how Syria got that way in the first place. The problem isn't Syria its the people who live their and their culture/religion. Moving them to Europe won't lift then up so much as drag Europe down until it is no different than the places they left.
                              It's part of the top-down mentality of leftist thought: the people are victims of the powerful, thus we have to balance the scales. It's not the victims' fault, of course. Can't blame the poor poor people, it's always the wealthy, powerful, and other enemies of the people.

                              Though on your last point there is a bit of a flaw, as the refugees - a minority - are not somehow inherently unchangeable when compared to the Europeans there. A more viable outcome is a synthesis of cultures - and as the migrants are the smaller, weaker group, the synthesis will favor the entrenched majority. Your third-generation Arab immigrant in Paris is more French than Algerian.

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X