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UK Half Bombing Islamic State

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  • UK Half Bombing Islamic State

    The RAF has already been bombing ISIS targets in Iraq for some time. However the Government lost a Commons vote previously on bombing in Syria to oust Assad. This means the UK has no mandate to bomb in Syria so we have been only half bombing ISIS and leaving half alone.

    After the Paris attack and French calls for assistance, the Government wants to now bomb in Syria but will not proceed without backing from a Commons vote. However the Government majority is very small and Corbyn, the opposition leader has been strongly opposed to bombing in Syria. Under pressure from his own MPs, Corbyn has allowed an open vote rather than whipping his Party to follow his view. The vote will now happen this week but it has been a tortuous process.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34970516
    Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

  • #2
    You'll be using ze Eurofighter ?
    That rug really tied the room together

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    • #3
      Originally posted by sebfrench76 View Post
      You'll be using ze Eurofighter ?
      According to our Defence Minister, the French request is largely because of the precision targeting equipment the RAF uses. Could be Eurofighter or Tornado. Who knows, we may even use your aircraft carrier with F35. Cooperation with France in particular is seen as part of UK military strategy.
      Last edited by Escape2Victory; 01 Dec 15, 02:08.
      Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

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      • #4
        Dave showing off his virility by uninvited bombing in some foreign country, where the small contribution will do no more than increase the terror risk in his own. Great.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gooner View Post
          Dave showing off his virility by uninvited bombing in some foreign country, where the small contribution will do no more than increase the terror risk in his own. Great.
          Since Britain is already bombing IS and since they have already attempted terrorist attacks on Britain (including the tourists in Tunisia) one doubts that the threat will increase that much
          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MarkV View Post
            Since Britain is already bombing IS and since they have already attempted terrorist attacks on Britain (including the tourists in Tunisia) one doubts that the threat will increase that much
            Why not? They might put their best boys on it instead of the B team.

            Its not as if we're stopping them coming back here if they want to.

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            • #7
              Why not? They might put their best boys on it instead of the B team.

              Its not as if we're stopping them coming back here if they want to
              If you want to degrade IS leadership, supplies, ability to conquer territory and - big positive feedback loop here - continue to atract recruits, then not bombing their positions in Syria is to ignore one of the cardinal rules of anti-insurgent work. As Mark V said; they are unlikely to decide to forgo stacks against the UK simply because the RAF has focused solely on Iraq.

              Hit them where you can, whenever you can; it is unlikely by itself to remove them from the face of the Earth but as part of an effort to curb their funding, flow of supplies and ability to attract new recruits it is a perfectly justifiable course of action.

              ts not as if we're stopping them coming back here if they want to.
              Actually that is just what the UK is trying to stop, in addition to restricting ability of people to go in the first place. Unfortunately, we remain a free and open society, so it is a bit tricky.
              History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

              Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bluenose View Post
                If you want to degrade IS leadership, supplies, ability to conquer territory and - big positive feedback loop here - continue to atract recruits, then not bombing their positions in Syria is to ignore one of the cardinal rules of anti-insurgent work. As Mark V said; they are unlikely to decide to forgo stacks against the UK simply because the RAF has focused solely on Iraq.

                Hit them where you can, whenever you can; it is unlikely by itself to remove them from the face of the Earth but as part of an effort to curb their funding, flow of supplies and ability to attract new recruits it is a perfectly justifiable course of action.
                There are plenty of players already doing that without us having to stick our two penneth worth in.

                Actually that is just what the UK is trying to stop, in addition to restricting ability of people to go in the first place. Unfortunately, we remain a free and open society, so it is a bit tricky.
                We're trying to stop them coming back? Must have missed that.
                Bit odd for us to be trying to kill them without trial or indeed warning when they are over there and little danger to us and merely 'monitor' them when they come back here.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                  There are plenty of players already doing that without us having to stick our two penneth worth in.



                  We're trying to stop them coming back? Must have missed that.
                  Bit odd for us to be trying to kill them without trial or indeed warning when they are over there and little danger to us and merely 'monitor' them when they come back here.
                  Returnees have been arrested and charged when it is known they have been to Syria - you did miss that it seems. However without removing citizenship from them we cannot legally stop them coming back but they can be charged when they do get back. Unlike the USA and Russia Britain does not remove citizenship (except in the case of dual citizenship). Technically rendering a person stateless has been a crime under UN membership rules since 1945. The only way round this would be to deem the individual as having adopted IS nationality but that would mean recognising IS as a legitimate state.
                  Last edited by MarkV; 01 Dec 15, 06:46.
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                  • #10
                    Quite willing to recognise ISIL as a de facto state and any UKian who joins them as no longer British citizens.

                    Love to see a public vote on that!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                      Quite willing to recognise ISIL as a de facto state and any UKian who joins them as no longer British citizens.

                      Love to see a public vote on that!
                      Not viable in international law - they'd have to be recognised de jure
                      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                        Not viable in international law - they'd have to be recognised de jure
                        Times change and the law should change with it.

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                        • #13
                          A combined attack Rafale/Eurofighter is not for tomorrow ??
                          That rug really tied the room together

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                            Times change and the law should change with it.
                            So we'd regress back to the days when states could remove citizenship like the Nazis did - which is why it became law in 1945
                            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sebfrench76 View Post
                              A combined attack Rafale/Eurofighter is not for tomorrow ??
                              It appears that the idea is to use the intelligence pod with the Brimstone to go after senior command personnel - so it'll have to be Tornadoes.
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                              Comment

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