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  • Have you signed up Bill?

    The Yes Scotland campaign has signed up 143,000 backers during the six months since promising to get a million people to support its independence pledge.

    SNP leader Alex Salmond said in May that if the one million target was achieved, independence would happen.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-20539259

    Hi Bill

    Just joshing with you

    Seriously though how can a million votes ensure victory, when the voting popn is supposed to be around 3.5million?

    Regards
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

    "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

  • #2
    I guess that there is an assumption that for every sign up there will be X number who support but don't sign up in advance.

    That well known light entertainer from Glasgow, Frankie Boyle is a good example.

    The big quesiton is what the turnout rate will be. My guess is that the lower the turnout the higher the chance of a YES as nationalist are probably going to be a bit more committed. Like the old Tory mantra "Don't do anything stupid and pray for rain".
    What would Occam say?

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    • #3
      I have.
      Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

      Comment


      • #4
        One interesting thing you read all the time from the Unionist side is the false idea that you are either Scottish or British.

        British is a term rarely used in practice. Having travelled a lot I hear the phrase "from the UK" in common use by Scots, Irish and Welsh. English people tend just to say "England" when they refer to Britain which can tick some people off.

        Having been part of the UK for 300 years and being a part of the geographical British Isles, Scots will probably have the British tag for as long as those islands exist. The Romans used the term 2,000 years ago long before the country existed.

        In any conflict between the UK and any other nation I will invariably side with the UK and identify with it in much the same way I would almost automatically side with the US, or in some cases with Europe.

        We have, and will almost certainly continue to have multiple identities much as Scandanavias do. As Danes are Danish, European and Scandinavian we will probably still be "British" long after the UK is part of our history rather than part of our nationality.
        What would Occam say?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by billscottmorri View Post
          One interesting thing you read all the time from the Unionist side is the false idea that you are either Scottish or British.

          .
          Cobblers no-ones suggested that. I'm English and British and so on for the Welsh etc...

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          • #6
            In my mind, as I constantly remind those who get it wrong on this forum, England =/= Britain. (See the WWI forums) I don't hear people referring to England as Britain or vice versa so much these days.
            ------
            'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

            If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Selous View Post
              In my mind, as I constantly remind those who get it wrong on this forum, England =/= Britain. (See the WWI forums) I don't hear people referring to England as Britain or vice versa so much these days.
              It may well be something that you notice more when you are on the receiving end.

              Broadcasters are very good, now, at getting it right but others still tick off the grumpy fringes by being clumsy. A very good book I read recently on Trafalgar had the RN noted as "English" which is silly and thoughtless.

              My personal all time fave was the 1966 England football mascot which was a lion wearing a union flag. A reverse example ofnthe same mentality.

              Euro 94 was the big breakthrough when the St George's Cross was liberated and regained its position as England's flag with the Union flag being reserved for UK events.

              My German friend just spent a week in Edinburgh and knowing my interest he told me that he counted the ratio of Union flags to Saltires. His figure was 17 to 1 with all British flags being on major public buildings with only one exception (a hotel owned by an Irish company strangely).

              In Glasgow, my home town, the union flag is almost completely viewed as a sectarian banner flown by Rangers fans and militant protestants. Glasgow cops can and do arrest people for waving it if it is felt to be provocative (old firm games and around July 12). Perhaps the only case where you can be busted and charged for using the national flag.
              What would Occam say?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by billscottmorri View Post
                In Glasgow, my home town, the union flag is almost completely viewed as a sectarian banner flown by Rangers fans and militant protestants. Glasgow cops can and do arrest people for waving it if it is felt to be provocative (old firm games and around July 12). Perhaps the only case where you can be busted and charged for using the national flag.
                Hi Bill

                Well if the SNP wishes come true we could still yet have Scottish police arresting Union Flag waving (hooligans), south of the border if Independence comes to pass
                Obviously we will be sending ours north to arrest the Saltire waving hooligans as well

                Regards
                "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                • #9
                  Presumably the Union Flag would cease to be. That, for me as a self-identifying Briton (with no additional nation-specific), is a worrying thought, as it's the extinguishing of the symbol of my country.
                  ------
                  'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

                  If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Selous View Post
                    Presumably the Union Flag would cease to be. That, for me as a self-identifying Briton (with no additional nation-specific), is a worrying thought, as it's the extinguishing of the symbol of my country.
                    The fact that you say that puts a poor value on England's relationship with Northern Ireland and Wales. Should they adopt the St Georges Cross and become part of greater England?
                    What would Occam say?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There was a time in the not too distant past that the pc brigade would have the police knocking your door down and arrest you for waving the george cross and union flag or just flying it patrioticly.
                      In some towns and cities its still frowned upon and considered offensive to thd asian population.
                      Considering most are british born itr madness.
                      As for glasgow when the old firms meet thatr just plain scary and acts of bigotary and racism are common with scots v scots fighting over religion and old scores instead of watching football.
                      I have met many scots while in the army and love em, after all the oldest line regiment in the british army is scottish

                      Sent from my GT-I5500 using Tapatalk 2

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by billscottmorri View Post
                        The fact that you say that puts a poor value on England's relationship with Northern Ireland and Wales.
                        Which is a lot more than the value the Scottish independtsers put on the value of their relationships with Northern Ireland and Wales.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Selous View Post
                          Presumably the Union Flag would cease to be. That, for me as a self-identifying Briton (with no additional nation-specific), is a worrying thought, as it's the extinguishing of the symbol of my country.
                          I dont think it puts a poor value on them at all. Thats a strawman argument. The flag might have to change. I think it should be just left alone. Its our brand symbol and every buggar around the world knows it...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by billscottmorri View Post
                            The fact that you say that puts a poor value on England's relationship with Northern Ireland and Wales. Should they adopt the St Georges Cross and become part of greater England?
                            Neither Wales nor NI have a St Andrew's cross, Bill. And presumably by the rules of heraldry neither will the flag of the this state once Scotland leaves it. That doesn't mean that the St George's cross would be the replacement, but whatever the replacement is, by definition, I believe, it wouldn't have the blue field and white cross.
                            ------
                            'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

                            If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules

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                            • #15
                              Well the Union flag was created by a government committe which a lot of people forget. If the UK choses to dump the blue bit the new flag would probably be chosen in a reality programme now with Ant and Dec.

                              Since the Queen would be Scotland's head of State there is no real reason to drop the Saltire element and as noted it is a pretty important part of brand Britain so my guess is that you will keep it.

                              I just heard on the BBC that Stormont is legislating to limit the number of Union flags flown from UK government buildings which is interesting.

                              The point made earlier about Old Firm matches having two groups of loonies screaming at each other is well put. Interestingly though the Union Flag enthusiast Rangers fanda are also the most loyal fans at Scottish international games, don't ask me why but the same people most attached to using the flag as a sectarian banner are also the keenest to pick up their Saltires when the pipes call for the Tartan Army.
                              What would Occam say?

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