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  • Breivik determined sane and found guilty

    They could not exactly find him innocent obviously. But he has been declared sane and sentenced to 21 years - with the possibility of it being extended.

    "A Norwegian court has found that mass killer Anders Behring Breivik is sane and sentenced him to 21 years in jail.

    He was convicted of terrorism and premeditated murder, and given the maximum sentence of 21 years' imprisonment.

    However, that can be prolonged at a later date if he is deemed to remain a danger to society. "

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19365616

    While there is a chance to extend it beyond the 21 year maximum I am surprised that in such a case they would give a ten year minimum sentence. If he were to get out at all, even after 21 years it would simply not be a punishment for what he did.
    "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
    G.B Shaw

    "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
    Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

  • #2
    Hi

    Though I welcome the sentence, I'm disturbed that he's actually clinically sane. Just how anyone can murder children in cold blood whilst being 'sane', defines all human logic, reasoning or emotion.

    Let's hope he slowly rots away in silence

    Regards
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

    "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sergio View Post
      They could not exactly find him innocent obviously. But he has been declared sane and sentenced to 21 years - with the possibility of it being extended.

      "A Norwegian court has found that mass killer Anders Behring Breivik is sane and sentenced him to 21 years in jail.

      He was convicted of terrorism and premeditated murder, and given the maximum sentence of 21 years' imprisonment.

      However, that can be prolonged at a later date if he is deemed to remain a danger to society. "

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19365616

      While there is a chance to extend it beyond the 21 year maximum I am surprised that in such a case they would give a ten year minimum sentence. If he were to get out at all, even after 21 years it would simply not be a punishment for what he did.
      The Norwegian expectation seems to be that after 21 years, a decision will be made whether to release him, or conclude he remains and unrepetent menace to society, and top-up his incarcertation by another 5 years, rinse and repeat.

      The general opinion seems to be that unless Breivik really, truly has a fundamental change of heart and become absolutely penitent in the coming 21 years, the system certainly allows for his incarceration for the remainder of his natural life.

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      • #4
        ^ You'll have to forgive me, but after seeing various convicted terrorists freed on "compassionate" or "humanitarian" grounds over the years, I'm rather confident that this ******* will be out before his 65th birthday, and quite possibly tens years before that.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
          The Norwegian expectation seems to be that after 21 years, a decision will be made whether to release him, or conclude he remains and unrepetent menace to society, and top-up his incarcertation by another 5 years, rinse and repeat.

          The general opinion seems to be that unless Breivik really, truly has a fundamental change of heart and become absolutely penitent in the coming 21 years, the system certainly allows for his incarceration for the remainder of his natural life.
          Oh I know that the system allows for him to be jailed for his natural life (and hopefully it will) but am amazed that they gave him a minimum term of ten years.
          "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
          G.B Shaw

          "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
          Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
            The Norwegian expectation seems to be that after 21 years, a decision will be made whether to release him, or conclude he remains and unrepetent menace to society, and top-up his incarcertation by another 5 years, rinse and repeat.

            The general opinion seems to be that unless Breivik really, truly has a fundamental change of heart and become absolutely penitent in the coming 21 years, the system certainly allows for his incarceration for the remainder of his natural life.
            Jeez.... better HOPE so, eh?

            21 years is the max, what a joke.
            Makes me wonder how many other people are in Norwegian jails doing 21 years that should never see the light of day again.

            Let me get this straight-
            The S.O.B. goes around slaughtering kids by the truckload because he thinks Norway has gone soft in the head.
            And then the Norwegian Justice system goes and does all it can to prove him right ?!?

            Beam me up, Scotty...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
              21 years is the max, what a joke.
              Have you done 21 years yourself? I doubt it. When someone says, fighting in a battle isn't so bad at all and we find out he never ever actually has done so, we rightly ignore his empty talk. Yet people routinely declare decades of prison to be nothing at all. If I were coming out of prison now after having served for 21 years, they would have had convicted me in primary school. Everything that I did and experienced between that time and now, poof, gone, replaces with day in day out of prison life. If I were convicted 20 21 years now, I would still be over a decade from pension age, though as a 50+ oldster with no job for the past two decades, the prospects of getting a job aren't exactly stellar. And again, while I do not know what the future holds for me, I am pretty sure that it is so much richer, so much more full of real life, than that poor substitute of prison life.

              Sure Brevik would deserve worse, much, MUCH worse that this sentence. But if you honestly think two decades behind bars is nothing at all, you are either engaging in so much empty talk, or live a really boring life.
              Reaction to the 2016 Munich shootings:
              Europe: "We are shocked and support you in these harsh times, we stand by you."
              USA: "We will check people from Germany extra-hard and it is your own damn fault for being so stupid."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                Jeez.... better HOPE so, eh?

                21 years is the max, what a joke.
                Makes me wonder how many other people are in Norwegian jails doing 21 years that should never see the light of day again.

                Let me get this straight-
                The S.O.B. goes around slaughtering kids by the truckload because he thinks Norway has gone soft in the head.
                And then the Norwegian Justice system goes and does all it can to prove him right ?!?

                Beam me up, Scotty...
                You just take heart from the fact that at least the Norwegians didn't write him off as simply medically challenged, and decided to try to make him well again.

                But the Norwegians are strikingly non-vindictive, and convinced people can generally be rehabilitated. It works to the extent that Norway has 1:10 the US incarceration rate, and one of the lowest relapse frequencies in the world of people that have served time prison. They actually rehabilitate most of their criminals. (They've got the oil money to spend on doing it as well of course.)

                Breivik does however offer this rather sympathetic nation some special challenges however.

                But if simple vengeance is your drink, Norway probably isn't to your liking.

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                • #9
                  Norway is fighting terrorism the Norwegian way, no cries for vengeance or bloody retribution, nothing but the just application of the laws of the land.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by redcoat View Post
                    Norway is fighting terrorism the Norwegian way, no cries for vengeance or bloody retribution, nothing but the just application of the laws of the land.
                    It is obvious Breivik is a right wing fascist with extreme anti-immigration views. I'm convinced the guy is insane as he admitted he would accept the death penalty. Apparently he would love to be considered a martyr for his cause and by putting him to death he would achieve his craving for martyrdom. He should be completely isolated in a mental institution. That to him would be a worse punishment than prison or the death penalty.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brian Scott View Post
                      It is obvious Breivik is a right wing fascist with extreme anti-immigration views. I'm convinced the guy is insane as he admitted he would accept the death penalty. Apparently he would love to be considered a martyr for his cause and by putting him to death he would achieve his craving for martyrdom. He should be completely isolated in a mental institution. That to him would be a worse punishment than prison or the death penalty.
                      It still sends the wrong message — that Breivik is not an ideologically motivated right wing fascits and extremist, but simple addled in the head, poor thing (lets try some meds and therapy to make him well again).

                      Next down the line is the assumption that all right wing fascists in Norway are like that becuase of faulty brain-chemistry, and growing up with broken toys (hugs)...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                        It still sends the wrong message — that Breivik is not an ideologically motivated right wing fascits and extremist, but simple addled in the head, poor thing (lets try some meds and therapy to make him well again).

                        Next down the line is the assumption that all right wing fascists in Norway are like that becuase of faulty brain-chemistry, and growing up with broken toys (hugs)...
                        That raises an interesting issue, as we I think western world has quite gone that way for a while now. ie. People who do bad things are not bad but insane. Maybe we are now starting to accept that people who do these things are bad and deserve to be punished, not to be "understood" and medicated.
                        Wisdom is personal

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Karri View Post
                          That raises an interesting issue, as we I think western world has quite gone that way for a while now. ie. People who do bad things are not bad but insane. Maybe we are now starting to accept that people who do these things are bad and deserve to be punished, not to be "understood" and medicated.
                          Possibly. I'm in two minds myself.

                          It think people like Breivik ABSOLUTELY needs to be understood by the rest of us who ABSOLUTELY disagrees with him. But "pathologisation" shouldn't be what we want here. It's unwanted, unsubstantiated, medical thinking creeping into what are in fact political and ideological.

                          The Open Society Must Be Defended, but declaring its adversaries mentally deficient on the assumption that "if they only understood" they would agree with it instead. Which trivilalises the situation to either a simple infirmation problem (just tell the buggers what they should think and it will all come right), or if that proves not to work declare them mentally deficient (which is an ad hoc explanation to why it seems it's not simply an information problem).

                          People make dramatic existential decisions for themselves. At least few have made quite as dramatic choises as Brevik - apart from a bunch of more or less self-radicalised Muslims who like Breivik have spent too much time trawling the dregs of the internet. I don't think we are served by attempting to trivialise them and their choices. We need to confront them. The tricky bit is that we don't want to tap into and feed the kind of self-dramatisation that someone like Brevik - or Muslim suicide bombers for that matter - feed their determination with. So that makes trivialisation and belittling, even declaring them nuts, a logical choice. What I'm after is that it's a probably a lazy one. They construct for themselves heavily dramatic and comelling narratives that DO attract other people to them. If the defenders of democracy, the open society etc., all these things they are against, cannot compete with powerful, evocative narratives that its defenders can also tap into, then we just might be in trouble. A surprising number of people just might get sick of the luke-warm kind of goody-goody democracy as well unfortunatelty and start looking for headier stuff to stuff their skulls with...

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                          • #14
                            Norway should have said eff it were gunna shoot the SOB, or the Government should have made a special case and extend the law especially for him and eff the European Court.

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                            • #15
                              A new joke just off the Internets: after murdering 5 of his prison cell guards, the bastard had his cable TV unplugged following the unusually harsh decision of the Norwegian court.
                              www.histours.ru

                              Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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