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UK Doctors back denial of treatment for smokers and the obese

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  • UK Doctors back denial of treatment for smokers and the obese

    Guess there's likely to be no cheap medical upside for me returning to the UK then.

    Survey finds 54% of doctors think the NHS should have the right to withhold non-emergency treatment.

    A majority of doctors support measures to deny treatment to smokers and the obese, according to a survey that has sparked a row over the NHS's growing use of "lifestyle rationing". Some 54% of doctors who took part said the NHS should have the right to withhold non-emergency treatment from patients who do not lose weight or stop smoking. Some medics believe unhealthy behaviour can make procedures less likely to work, and that the service is not obliged to devote scarce resources to them. However, senior doctors and patient groups have voiced alarm at what they call "blackmailing" of the sick, and denial of their human rights.
    More at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...-smokers-obese
    Last edited by PhilipLaos; 29 Apr 12, 00:03.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell

  • #2
    Sickening...no way you can withhold treatment just because some poor sap is addicted to cigs
    "I am the Lorax, and I'll yell and I'll shout for the fine things on earth that are on their way out!"

    ~Dr. Seuss, The Lorax


    "The trouble with Scotland...is that it's full of Scots!"

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    • #3
      Or food. Since food can be a addiction. And they call themselves doctors, may they live in interesting times.
      you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

      CPO Mzinyati

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      • #4
        Even as a lifelong smoker and heavy drinker I can sympathize with the view of those doctors.

        Those lifestyle 'choices' of mine are quite likely to put me in the position (if I were still living in the UK) of croaking out demandingly from my hospital bed, "I don't care if the operations cost taxpayers $400,000, you have to perform them in order to give me a few more months of life because that's what you are mandated to do under NHS rules!"

        Does not seem reasonable for me to demand such expensive care necessitated by my own lifestyle choices.

        For those kinds of (limited) money and resources, there are worthier ways in which to use them.


        Philip
        "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell

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        • #5
          Perhaps they will withhold treatment for those immigrants who come to this country with infections like HIV, TB, malaria, and drug addictions etc. Closer to home, those who have a habit of going out on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday night to get smashed out of their heads for 'a laugh' should also be ignored. As far as I am concerned those I have listed above are 'in general' as worse as smoking and being over weight.

          Paul
          ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
          All human ills he can subdue,
          Or with a bauble or medal
          Can win mans heart for you;
          And many a blessing know to stew
          To make a megloamaniac bright;
          Give honour to the dainty Corse,
          The Pixie is a little shite.

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          • #6
            This, in my humble opinion, is the most pertinant comment in the whole article.

            Dr Ringrose said: "Perhaps its time for the NHS to have a realistic discussion with UK taxpayers about what treatments it can continue to cover."
            I think there has to be a realisation that the NHS in the modern age cannot afford to be a catch-all service, and in many ways it isn't already. In assisted pregancy for example if you already have a child or have had three attempts you have to go private.

            The problem is what to cover, where to draw the lines? Should the NHS be purely for life threatening conditions? If so should things like treatment for depression be covered?

            If non-lifethreatening mental health issues are covered should breast augmentations, for example, also continue to be covered where a patient's chronic negative self image and associated mental health issues would be improved?

            When it comes to smoking, I admit I fall into the virulently opposed ex-smoker camp, but when someone voluntarily takes up a habit that has absolutely no positive effects but will be severly detrimental to their health then my position is sure, smoke if you like but don't come crying to me as a taxpayer when you end up with emphysema.

            It may come as no suprise then that I completely back proposals to have blank packets stored out of sight.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wellington95 View Post
              Sickening...no way you can withhold treatment just because some poor sap is addicted to cigs
              Why not? No-one in this day and age can be ignorant of the associated ramifications for their health. It's not like anyone puts a gun to their head and makes them smoke?

              I mean for christ sake, that first packet makes you feel utterly awful. You actually have to force yourself to keep smoking until your body isn't sickened by it.

              The only treatment the NHS should offer is to help quit.

              Oh, and don't get me started on women who smoke through their pregnancies.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                As far as I am concerned those I have listed above are 'in general' as worse as smoking and being over weight.
                Paul
                I have to disagree, for me it is the other way round. STDs and such you can easily get from one mistake. You can lead a perfectly healthy live, but you slip once, maybe due to getting drunk just once, and you are stuck with the disease. But overeating and smoking, you aren't gonna get overweight or get lung cancer from doing it once, but by regularly indulging in it, you are systematically wearing your health down. But this is a matter of opinion I would say
                Reaction to the 2016 Munich shootings:
                Europe: "We are shocked and support you in these harsh times, we stand by you."
                USA: "We will check people from Germany extra-hard and it is your own damn fault for being so stupid."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                  Perhaps they will withhold treatment for those immigrants who come to this country with infections like HIV, TB, malaria, and drug addictions etc.
                  Those conditions aren't exactly unique to immigrants. Cheryl formerly-known-as-Cole got malaria after all.
                  Silent Hunter UK
                  Member of Phoenix Roleplaying

                  Personal Blog

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
                    Those conditions aren't exactly unique to immigrants. Cheryl formerly-known-as-Cole got malaria after all.
                    I see it this way! I may get a cold, I may get the flu, my family members may also get such infections and I may catch said infection from them or vice versa, at home from which we suffer the consequences. I would not invite a neighbough into my house who has a cold or flu where I would have to give up my time, energy and finance to nurse them back to health again with the chance that they may infect one of us in the process.

                    To put it simple. One may let the dog **** on the carpet, one does not invite other peoples dogs in to do the same.

                    Paul
                    ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                    All human ills he can subdue,
                    Or with a bauble or medal
                    Can win mans heart for you;
                    And many a blessing know to stew
                    To make a megloamaniac bright;
                    Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                    The Pixie is a little shite.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                      I see it this way! I may get a cold, I may get the flu, my family members may also get such infections and I may catch said infection from them or vice versa, at home from which we suffer the consequences. I would not invite a neighbough into my house who has a cold or flu where I would have to give up my time, energy and finance to nurse them back to health again with the chance that they may infect one of us in the process.
                      Of course you wouldn't. However, a lot of young British people might pick up a complete stranger at a nightclub with an STD...
                      Silent Hunter UK
                      Member of Phoenix Roleplaying

                      Personal Blog

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fodder76 View Post
                        Why not? No-one in this day and age can be ignorant of the associated ramifications for their health. It's not like anyone puts a gun to their head and makes them smoke?

                        I mean for christ sake, that first packet makes you feel utterly awful. You actually have to force yourself to keep smoking until your body isn't sickened by it.

                        The only treatment the NHS should offer is to help quit.

                        Oh, and don't get me started on women who smoke through their pregnancies.
                        They pay for NHS in their taxes, thus the whole discussion is moot.
                        In a swamp scum rises to the top

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by philiplaos View Post
                          Even as a lifelong smoker and heavy drinker I can sympathize with the view of those doctors.

                          Those lifestyle 'choices' of mine are quite likely to put me in the position (if I were still living in the UK) of croaking out demandingly from my hospital bed, "I don't care if the operations cost taxpayers $400,000, you have to perform them in order to give me a few more months of life because that's what you are mandated to do under NHS rules!"

                          Does not seem reasonable for me to demand such expensive care necessitated by my own lifestyle choices.

                          For those kinds of (limited) money and resources, there are worthier ways in which to use them.


                          Philip
                          Agreed. I certainly support allowing voluntarily harmful behavior, but that also means one has to accept that one will have to deal with the consequences.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Karri View Post
                            They pay for NHS in their taxes, thus the whole discussion is moot.
                            The discussion is far from moot when some modern drugs for conditions like breast cancer are not allowed on the NHS due entirely to the cost of treatment. Do the women (and men for that matter) not deserve the best treatment available if they contract a life threating disease through no fault of their own? After all they pay for the NHS in their taxes.

                            The NHS cannot afford to treat every condition, and, frankly, was never intended to by the people who conceived it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
                              Of course you wouldn't. However, a lot of young British people might pick up a complete stranger at a nightclub with an STD...
                              A problem within in the family of Britain, in the house of Britain is a problem that is 'OK' (though never a good thing) by me with.

                              Paul
                              ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                              All human ills he can subdue,
                              Or with a bauble or medal
                              Can win mans heart for you;
                              And many a blessing know to stew
                              To make a megloamaniac bright;
                              Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                              The Pixie is a little shite.

                              Comment

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