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How Should US Deal with China Long-term?

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  • Well, I guess whatever we did, it didn't work out. Although it does seem that as of now, the US manufacturing base IS pretty well decimated, see respirators, masks, cell phone and computer components, etc.

    Also, they seem to be the ones with undue influence on international bodies. See WHO

    They have nothing to control North Korea in the last decade, which they would have if they were a responsible country.

    They continue to spew out huge amounts of pollution.





    Comment


    • They also have firm allies other than Myanmar and, as you mentioned, North Korea.

      Step up, restore alliances, and if cheap manufacturing is really so necessary (it isn't) then there are other nations in Asia.
      Lots of them.

      Making them stronger at China's expense would be the best thing the US could possibly do. China has begun it's cycle of xenophobia, hate, suspicion and racism. It is a mental game of tic-tac-toe, and you know what they have to say about that game?
      "The only winning move is not to play."

      And yes, racism. It is endemic there.



      Oh, that's riiiiight, if I use just that guy, it will all become about him instead of the topic.

      Okay, here is Al Jazeera



      And TRT -


      Last edited by Phaing; 19 Apr 20, 00:21.

      Comment


      • US running "freedom of navigation" exercises in the South China Sea. Good. Standing up to the Chicoms. Link attached.

        https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/asia/...hnk/index.html

        excerpt #1

        The guided-missile cruiser USS Bunker Hill on Wednesday "asserted navigational rights and freedoms in the Spratly Islands, consistent with international law," said Cmdr. Reann Mommsen, a spokesperson for the Navy's 7th Fleet, in a statement.

        The Spratlys, called the Nansha Islands by China, are in the southern portion of the 1.3 million square mile South China Sea. While several countries have claims on the island chain, the US has long accused China of militarizing the Spratly Islands by deploying anti-ship cruise missiles and long-range surface-to-air missiles to Chinese outposts there.
        "This freedom of navigation operation upheld the rights, freedoms, and lawful uses of the sea recognized in international law by challenging the restrictions on innocent passage imposed by China, Vietnam, and Taiwan," Mommsen said.

        excerpt #2


        New US strategy



        The back-to-back missions are indicative of a new Pentagon strategy -- "strategic predictability, operational unpredictability" -- to keep foes on their heels, said Timothy Heath, senior defense researcher with the Rand Corp. think tank in Virginia.

        Heath pointed to a similar move earlier in the month when the US Air Force ended its Continuous Bomber Presence on the island of Guam, opting instead to move B-1s, B-2s and B-52s into the region whenever the Pentagon sees fit.

        "Just as the bombers at Guam are no longer consistently present there, US naval forces in the South China Sea are likely to carry out operations and activities in unusual patterns that are inconsistent with past, predictable patterns," Heath said.

        The US Navy said the back-to-back operations are just business as usual.

        Comment


        • People who cling to fighting for manufacturing are being a little foolish. The US manufacturing base was doomed long before China came along.

          My wife used to work in fashion accessories sales to a large retail organization that rhymes with "Walmart". They could get a pair of socks made overseas, shipped to the US, and still sell on the floor for $0.99 or less. Once you see that, you KNOW US manufacturing is deader than yesterdays fish.

          The US should be pushing China to respect IP rights. This is the where the US is still competitive and can be a source of wealth for a long time to come.

          Old school US education, intelligence, ingenuity, and love of a challenge can still serve their country well. What's concerning is that entrenched industries fight innovation in order to preserve the status quo. The US could be a leader in green and other disrupting technologies but this is currently not politically palatable. This is a closing window of opportunity. Once China passes the US in innovation, it's all over.

          Comment


          • I think something we should do immediately is go to the UN Security Council and call for a condemnation of China, and for them to come clean about the origins of the virus, and about the cover-up. Either they admit to what they did/didn't do, or they veto the motion. If they would veto it, as I assume, let them explain that to the world.

            Also, we should start an honest program to supply information to the Chinese population by whatever means are available - internet, radio, tv, etc. Something like a modern "Voice of America" or "Radio Free Europe". We should also provide our legitimate intelligence knowledge we have - such as during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And for this to be believable, the US should come clean about its previous and existing biological programs.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post

              Also, we should start an honest program to supply information to the Chinese population by whatever means are available - internet, radio, tv, etc. Something like a modern "Voice of America" or "Radio Free Europe". We should also provide our legitimate intelligence knowledge we have - such as during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And for this to be believable, the US should come clean about its previous and existing biological programs.
              It will not work with them. They learned on the Soviet errors and will not fall for the same trick.
              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                It will not work with them. They learned on the Soviet errors and will not fall for the same trick.
                Interesting - although I can't help notice how many of them want to move here and want to send there kids to college here - more so, I think, than to Moscow State University.

                Comment


                • From Politico - "Are the US and China on a War Footing in Space?"

                  https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-china-1365842

                  excerpt # 1

                  Outspending a rival power into economic exhaustion might have helped the U.S. win the Cold War, said Qiao Liang, a major general in the Chinese air force who co-wrote a book called "Unrestricted Warfare: China’s Master Plan to Destroy America." But he said it won’t work against a wealthy manufacturing powerhouse like China.
                  “China is not the Soviet Union,” Qiao said in an interview with the South China Morning Post, a news partner of POLITICO. “If the United States thinks it can also drag China into an arms race and take down China as it did with the Soviets … in the end, probably it would not be China who is down on the ground.”

                  excerpt #2

                  Recent reports from U.S. spy agencies and think tanks indicate that China's efforts are advancing quickly. Those include estimates that China will soon be able to field high-powered lasers designed to attack objects in low-Earth orbit — and evidence that Chinese weapons can already attack targets much farther from the Earth than the United States can.

                  China’s reliance on space assets is also expanding: It has more than 120 intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance satellites of its own — a number second only to the United States. About half of those assets owned and operated by the Chinese military and could be used to track and target U.S. forces around the world, the report warns.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post

                    Interesting - although I can't help notice how many of them want to move here and want to send there kids to college here - more so, I think, than to Moscow State University.
                    They want to learn new things and make better themselves and their country.
                    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                      I think something we should do immediately is go to the UN Security Council and call for a condemnation of China, and for them to come clean about the origins of the virus, and about the cover-up. Either they admit to what they did/didn't do, or they veto the motion. If they would veto it, as I assume, let them explain that to the world.
                      Good plan, but who would do that besides Trump?

                      And seeing as how the Left will sabotage anything trump tries to do because he is Trump....

                      For the first time in it's history, China is waging an aggressive war of conquest. Their tools are intimidation, Cyber-Warfare and bribery. If they were not interested in following it up with military action they would not be trying to blow-open all the choke-points that would aid in their defense. The Parcel & Spratley islands are not the only places that they are taking over.

                      Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                      Also, we should start an honest program to supply information to the Chinese population by whatever means are available - internet, radio, tv, etc. Something like a modern "Voice of America" or "Radio Free Europe". We should also provide our legitimate intelligence knowledge we have - such as during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And for this to be believable, the US should come clean about its previous and existing biological programs.
                      More than anything else, Communists fear and hate the truth. THat is why they invented Correctness, "Hate Speech" and termed everything they don't like as "Dangerous mis-information."
                      And now all of these things are enforcd by the Left is the US.



                      Last edited by Phaing; 07 May 20, 23:49.

                      Comment


                      • Well, given the trillions spent by the US, which I'm not arguing with, it is clear we will be "monetizing" our debt. It is obvious that sooner rather than later there will be significant inflation in the US, as the printing presses continue to print. Of course, this will primarily hurt Americans. But it decrease the real value of the Chinese debt holdings. It will also make Chinese goods more expensive, hence less US imports. Oh well. As far as I am concerned, they are welcome to transfer all or most of their debt holdings to Euro-denominated debt. Or yen or British pound denominated debt.

                        Link to Wikipedia article on Monetization/Debt Monetization.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetization

                        excerpt

                        Debt monetization and inflation[edit]


                        When government deficits are financed through debt monetization the outcome is an increase in the monetary base, shifting the aggregate-demand curve to the right leading to a rise in the price level (unless the money supply is infinitely elastic).[2][3] When governments intentionally do this, they devalue existing stockpiles of fixed income cash flows of anyone who is holding assets based in that currency. This does not reduce the value of floating or hard assets, and has an uncertain (and potentially beneficial) impact on some equities. It benefits debtors at the expense of creditors and will result in an increase in the nominal price of real estate. This wealth transfer is clearly not a Pareto improvement but can act as a stimulus to economic growth and employment in an economy overburdened by private debt.[citation needed] It is in essence a "tax" and a simultaneous redistribution to debtors as the overall value of creditors' fixed income assets drop (and as the debt burden to debtors correspondingly decreases). If the beneficiaries of this transfer are more likely to spend their gains (due to lower income and asset levels) this can stimulate demand and increase liquidity. It also decreases the value of the currency - potentially stimulating exports and decreasing imports - improving the balance of trade. Foreign owners of local currency and debt also lose money. Fixed income creditors experience decreased wealth due to a loss in spending power. This is known as "inflation tax" (or "inflationary debt relief"). Conversely, tight monetary policy which favors creditors over debtors even at the expense of reduced economic growth can also be considered a wealth transfer to holders of fixed assets from people with debt or with mostly human capital to trade (a "deflation tax").

                        A deficit can be the source of sustained inflation only if it is persistent rather than temporary, and if the government finances it by creating money (through monetizing the debt), rather than leaving bonds in the hands of the public.[4]

                        -------------------------------------------------------

                        link to Wikipedia article on foreign exchange reserves of China

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreig...erves_of_China

                        excerpt

                        Concerns over Chinese holdings of U.S. Debt[edit]


                        Many American and other economic analysts have expressed concerns on account of the People's Republic of China's "extensive" holdings, as part of their reserves, of United States government debt[12][13][14].

                        The National Defense Authorization Act of the fiscal year 2012 included a provision requiring the Secretary of Defense to conduct a "national security risk assessment of U.S. federal debt held by China." The Defense Department issued its report in July 2012, stating that “attempting to use U.S. Treasury securities as a coercive tool would have limited effect and likely would do more harm to China than to the United States. As the threat is not credible and the effect would be limited even if carried out, it does not offer China deterrence options, whether in the diplomatic, military, or economic realms, and this would remain true both in peacetime and in scenarios of crisis or war.”[15]

                        The 112th United States Congress introduced legislation whose aim was the assessment of the implications of China’s ownership of U.S. debt.[15] The subsequent Congressional Report of 2013 claimed that "[a] potentially serious short-term problem would emerge if China decided to suddenly reduce their liquid U.S. financial assets significantly" [emphasis in the original text], noting also that Federal Reserve System Chairman Ben Bernanke had, in 2007, stated that “because foreign holdings of U.S. Treasury securities represent only a small part of total U.S. credit market debt outstanding, U.S. credit markets should be able to absorb without great difficulty any shift of foreign allocations."[15]

                        A significant number of economists and analysts dismiss any and all concerns over foreign holdings of United States government debt denominated in U.S. Dollars, including China's holdings.[16][17][18][19] Critics of the "excessive" amount of US debt held by China acknowledge that the "biggest effect of a broad-scale dump of US Treasuries by China would be that China would actually export fewer goods to the United States."[14]

                        Comment


                        • link to Wikipedia article on Debt-trap Diplomacy

                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy

                          excerpt

                          Other accusations of debt-trap diplomacy by China are as follows:

                          Comment


                          • we should be reminding the Chinese that the Pacific War was fought largely in the best interests of the Peoples Republic of China and it's survival thereof.

                            I would like to know what happened to all the goodwill that Americans and most Pacific peoples had for the Chinese and what also happened to the not insubstantial American monetary invesatment in the future of China?

                            What happened to all the good will?

                            WHY are the Chinese so damned hell bent on dpmination?

                            Why do they need such a large military budget if they have no military conquest in mind?

                            America fought to guarantee Cghinese freedom.....why are they so ungrateful?
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                            • We should keep China in long term quarantine. Permanent restrictions on travel to and from.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                              Comment


                              • The whole premise of the thread is wrong. It shouldn't be "How should the US...?" but "How should the rest of the world...". When China can get the EU to amend a report on the Covid -19 virus to take some of the blame off of China, it shows exactly how much power China has. To use the immortal words of Ben Franklin--"If we don't hang together, we shall all hang separately". It shouldn't be the US doing FoN cruises, it should be multiple NATO and Asian navies doing them.

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