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How Should US Deal with China Long-term?

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  • Working against Chinese in countries targeted by China

    I realize now I left a very important off of the poll options. Namely, should the US work via overt and covert methods where China is attempting to establish influence? I would say yes. I would also assume we are in fact doing that now.

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    • Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
      I realize now I left a very important off of the poll options. Namely, should the US work via overt and covert methods where China is attempting to establish influence? I would say yes. I would also assume we are in fact doing that now.
      Somewhat true but consider that even hosting a state diner or sending a congressional 'good will' delegation is a form of competition.
      Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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      • China now "drawing a line in the sand" with US, per link to EU Times. I don't quite understand the motivations of the Chinese here, as the US is clearly not going to attack Pakistan, and I don't believe China is going to strike the US, and face annihilation.

        Granted, this article is of the "imperialist running dog" variety, but I think China is over-reaching.


        http://www.eutimes.net/2011/05/china...with-pakistan/

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
          China now "drawing a line in the sand" with US, per link to EU Times. I don't quite understand the motivations of the Chinese here, as the US is clearly not going to attack Pakistan, and I don't believe China is going to strike the US, and face annihilation.

          Granted, this article is of the "imperialist running dog" variety, but I think China is over-reaching.


          http://www.eutimes.net/2011/05/china...with-pakistan/
          says "any" attack. i think that includes the recent "attack" on pakistan, the bin laden takeout. I think afghanistan also thought it didnt attack the US, but the US disagreed.
          Ha, wie so stolz und hehr
          Wirft über Land und Meer
          Weithin der deutsche Aar
          Flammenden Blick.

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          • Rember Kimi, the US cannot do wrong.
            Task Force Regenbogen- Support and Paras

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            • Pakistan is China's ally. What other motivation should there be?

              And the blatant breach of sovereignty is as much a slap in the face as anything. I'm guessing that's another bridge burned, but let's see, time will tell.
              "We have no white flag."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                China now "drawing a line in the sand" with US, per link to EU Times. I don't quite understand the motivations of the Chinese here, as the US is clearly not going to attack Pakistan, and I don't believe China is going to strike the US, and face annihilation.
                I believe the way to put it is "The US is clearly not going to attack Pakistan and face Chinese annihilation."

                If Pakistan keeps up friendly relations with China, no nation can phase them. China more or less owns most Western economies, US included. War would be disastrous for any of these said economies, as numerous goods from China would be cut off. Not only that, but there really isn't a nation that can challenge China in terms of local power. China's power projection is horridly low, but it'd be extremely difficult to win a war against them in Pakistan without massive support, and completely suicidal to try to invade them, as their local/Asian power projection capabilities are tremendous.

                Due to the obviously devastating outcome of military force, the US won't dare attack Pakistan. Any fighting will be done by negotiations and words, not guns and nuclear weapons. That's how I see it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ricthofen View Post
                  I believe the way to put it is "The US is clearly not going to attack Pakistan and face Chinese annihilation."

                  If Pakistan keeps up friendly relations with China, no nation can phase them. China more or less owns most Western economies, US included. War would be disastrous for any of these said economies, as numerous goods from China would be cut off.
                  Disasterous to the profits of multi-national corporations the depend on $2 an hour labor for their huge profit margins. China is no Germany or Japan, they are simply a provider of low end junk for the Western consumer market. China is the nation that cannot afford a war, their whole economy is tied to free trade and exports.

                  Not only that, but there really isn't a nation that can challenge China in terms of local power. China's power projection is horridly low, but it'd be extremely difficult to win a war against them in Pakistan without massive support, and completely suicidal to try to invade them, as their local/Asian power projection capabilities are tremendous.

                  Due to the obviously devastating outcome of military force, the US won't dare attack Pakistan. Any fighting will be done by negotiations and words, not guns and nuclear weapons. That's how I see it.
                  Pakistan is a worthless country for the US to ever consider invading, only her nuclear weapons makes Pakistan even remotely relevant to the world stage.
                  If war is Hell, why was the Eastern Front so damned cold??!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by american1975 View Post
                    Disasterous to the profits of multi-national corporations the depend on $2 an hour labor for their huge profit margins. China is no Germany or Japan, they are simply a provider of low end junk for the Western consumer market. China is the nation that cannot afford a war, their whole economy is tied to free trade and exports.



                    Pakistan is a worthless country for the US to ever consider invading, only her nuclear weapons makes Pakistan even remotely relevant to the world stage.
                    China also holds almost all of the Western world in debt. They didn't get such monumental amounts of cash to lend by simply selling junk.

                    But I agree, I highly doubt that Pakistan would ever cause war between the US and China. Not only because it'd be a losing war for the US, but because Pakistan simply isn't important enough in the global scale to cause military action by either side.

                    Comment


                    • The question is, what gives the US the right to enter Pakistan territory against its will?
                      "We have no white flag."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by GMan88 View Post
                        The question is, what gives the US the right to enter Pakistan territory against its will?
                        My point exactly. The US has absolutely no right to enter Pakistan. And another positive side, if they tried to use "Might makes right", as they did, say, throughout the late 1800s and early 1900s in their interventions in Central America, China will swiftly and thoroughly put the US in its place.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ricthofen View Post
                          My point exactly. The US has absolutely no right to enter Pakistan. And another positive side, if they tried to use "Might makes right", as they did, say, throughout the late 1800s and early 1900s in their interventions in Central America, China will swiftly and thoroughly put the US in its place.
                          Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't many countries in that era have colonies and exert influence all over the world - for example, didn't The Second Reich have colonies in East Africa, West Africa, China, and the Pacific Islands?

                          Comment


                          • Nuclear weapons in the world

                            Given the saber-rattling going on , I thought I'd post an estimate of World nuclear weapons, from armscontrol.org.



                            http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets

                            Some more links on the subject.

                            http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key...n_analysis.pdf

                            http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key...a_analysis.pdf

                            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11888973


                            Notice the hands of the US and China in moving this process along.
                            Last edited by lakechampainer; 27 May 11, 13:27.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                              Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't many countries in that era have colonies and exert influence all over the world - for example, didn't The Second Reich have colonies in East Africa, West Africa, China, and the Pacific Islands?
                              Never said anyone else didn't. However, no one could stop the British Empire, French Empire, or Second Reich. There was no real sense of "global law", as the "globe" was pretty much ruled by said Empires.

                              The US' interfering in Central America could've been stopped. However, sadly, no Empires cared for the plight of said countries. The US was a small-time bully and the Central American countries had no way of stopping them, since no one really cared.

                              Now, the US is reassuming its old bullying ways frequently, and though stoppable, few really care. China, however, is friendly to Pakistan, and any such illegal attack by the US would not be passed off, but responded to swiftly, decisively, and with crushing force.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ricthofen View Post
                                Never said anyone else didn't. However, no one could stop the British Empire, French Empire, or Second Reich. There was no real sense of "global law", as the "globe" was pretty much ruled by said Empires.

                                The US' interfering in Central America could've been stopped. However, sadly, no Empires cared for the plight of said countries. The US was a small-time bully and the Central American countries had no way of stopping them, since no one really cared.

                                Now, the US is reassuming its old bullying ways frequently, and though stoppable, few really care. China, however, is friendly to Pakistan, and any such illegal attack by the US would not be passed off, but responded to swiftly, decisively, and with crushing force.

                                Boohoo bawahaaa mommy help it's the Reds....their going to stop us mommie....

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